Rickson Gracie FAQ

[Mike Wilson Jr.]

Can you talk about the philosophical diffrences between Carlson GJJ and Helio GJJ. and also any info on the time Carlson took a swing at Vitor from the stands after one of Vitors loses. (this was well after the Vitor/Carlson split).

Also, what was the rest of the brothers take on Helio's version (suited for a weaker, frailer man) and what they were taught/teaching.

Id like to hear more about this as well...

 

[Title Fight Productions]

I guess it is always about money. The gracie clan taught JJ for a living.

It was about who has the best MA.
If Luta Livre won, then it proved that they were better that GJJ.
And that were I see the GI dilemma.

.

When i said it was about economics and the gi was the instrument, what i meant was from what i understand Lutra-livre and GJJ came about at the same time, but the Gracies taught the rich, the privilaged and those that could "afford" a gi.

The guys who could not afford the gi could train at a Gracie academy so they trained subgrappling without the gi and this was Lutra-Livre.

The rich (who could afford the gi) vs. the poor (could not afford a gi)

 

[MickCollins]

So strengh played an important part in Calson JJ and his fighters were known for never playing guard.

Not necessarily true. Carlson had guys who had great guards. De La Riva, for instance. Carlson stated that, in modern Vale Tudo and MMA, you are better off in the top position. And he was right because time limits hurt a defensive BJJ player in a MMA fight. Later, in Sport BJJ, time limit and advantages hurt a defensive bjj player. So being on top is a better option than being in guard.

Carlson accused Vitor to throw the fight vs Sakubara for money. Carlson accused Vitor of living it large i.e. driving/owning an expensive car after his loss knowing that he could not afford it with the money that Pride paid him to fight. That was his reasoning!

I've heard that as well from a few people. Carlson and the Gracies(overall) get livid when people they have taught do things like that. It was why Helio fought Santana when Helio was in his 40s. Carlson was pissed as hell his name was tied to a thrown fight via Vitor.

 

[nefti]

Id like to hear more about this as well...

This is what i read/heard. Before Carlson, the Gracies were about the marathon fighting scessions (like helio's 3 hour fight with santana). So their philosophy was geared towards that. They didn't think that lifting was important for what they did (fight in no limit fights). Carlson was the first one in the gracie family to realize that powerlifting does wonders for a fighter; especially if there are time limits.

Carlson was the first gracie to bring power into their jiu jitsu

 

[DonkeyKong]

Not necessarily true. Carlson had guys who had great guards. De La Riva, for instance. Carlson stated that, in modern Vale Tudo and MMA, you are better off in the top position. And he was right because time limits hurt a defensive BJJ player in a MMA fight. Later, in Sport BJJ, time limit and advantages hurt a defensive bjj player. So being on top is a better option than being in guard.




I've heard that as well from a few people. Carlson and the Gracies(overall) get livid when people they have taught do things like that. It was why Helio fought Santana when Helio was in his 40s. Carlson was pissed as hell his name was tied to a thrown fight via Vitor.

Yep. Nothing pissed off the Gracies more than being in any way associated with fixed fights. Their whole life was to prove jiu jitsu was legitimate, and the best. Any possibility of tainting that was a very big deal.

Waldemar didnt even fix a fight, he fought a legitimate fight at a place known for hosting fixed fights. Helio forbade it, Waldemar needed the cash and did it. Helio kicked him out.

The press used Waldemar, a simpleton, and a journalist manipulated and instigated him into fighting Helio.

 

[Fencer]

With this in mind, Rorion Gracie patented the name Gracie Jiu Jitsu, forcing other Gracies to teach under their own name ( Renzo Gracie Jiu Jitsu, etc), in an effort to preserve the Jiu Jitsu legated unto him by his father.

Trademarked, not patented.

 

[DonkeyKong]

Trademarked, not patented.

My bad. Trademarked.

 

[Galahad]

Hey DK I'm sure this is common knowledge for a lot of bjj enthusiasts but how did the different teams come about?

I know Gracie Humaita is of course Helio, and Carlos Jr. created Barra, but how about Brasa, Alliance, Nova Uniao, etc....what is there lineage and relationship to the gracies?

 

[BenWS]

Hey DK I'm sure this is common knowledge for a lot of bjj enthusiasts but how did the different teams come about?

I know Gracie Humaita is of course Helio, and Carlos Jr. created Barra, but how about Brasa, Alliance, Nova Uniao, etc....what is there lineage and relationship to the gracies?

Edited i was incorrect.
Carlos Jr created barra. The machados were full time instructors at gracie barra when it was formed.

 

[MMA junkie]

I don't think Carlos Jr created barra. I'm pretty sure that the machados owned gracie barra before Carlos and sold their part of the gym when they moved to the US.

I thought Carlos Gracie Jr. was the founder of the Gracie Barra academy, located in Barra da Tijuca, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. It says so on the Gracie Barra Wiki, Carlos Gracie Jr's Wiki, and the Gracie Barra Website.

Gracie Barra America | Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu | Irvine, CA
Gracie Barra America | Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu | Irvine, CA

 

[DonkeyKong]

I'll research that and bring it back. I know superficially about some of the major gyms, but since this is a FAQ I might as well go look for the whole shebang.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

but since this is a FAQ I might as well go look for the whole shebang.

Hip Hip, Hooray!

Hip Hip, Hooray!!

Hip Hip, Hooray!!!

 

[Galahad]

I'll research that and bring it back. I know superficially about some of the major gyms, but since this is a FAQ I might as well go look for the whole shebang.

Thanks DK + this should be stickied.

 

[Imalwaysrite]

Where did Rickson learn his yoga from?

What religion his Rickson?

What does he the most important things about martial arts (meditation,base timing etc??)

Where can I find a schedule for his seminars?

 

[DonkeyKong]

Ok here we go

Gracie Humaita - Founded by Helio, Rolker and Royler. One of two gyms accredited by Helio, the other being the Gracie Academy in Torrance. Has never had a split, and trained great names such as Alexandre and Saulo Ribeiro, and Vinicius Magalhaes.

Gracie Barra- (Split from, Academia Gracie) Founded and run by Carlos Gracie Jr., in the US it is run by Marcio Feitosa. It wasn't a split so much as Carlos's desire to invest in another area. Rolls and Carlson used to train in alternating days at the Gracie Academy. Their students had something of a rivalry. After Rolls died, Carlos decided to open a Gracie gym in Barra da Tijuca and Carlson also split into his own team.

Carlson Gracie - (split from Academia Gracie) - Carlson opened his own gym in search of money. He did classes to many people, instead of privates, and charged little money. He did this for independence and money, he needed also to support a gambling problem that would last until the end of his life. Formed some of the toughest guys in JJ history.

Nova Uniao - Started out small, with Dede and Wendell (still at brown belt) teaching in smaller gyms in the suburbs of Rio, without great expectations. Consistently stronger with time, started to have a presence in championships until they became one of the biggest teams in Brazil. The great problem with Nova Uniao wasn't a split from another team, but from CBJJ, in the confederation split.

CBJJO, or the Brazilian Confederation of Olympic Jiu Jitsu, was basically a new CBJJ that intended to organize tournaments with money prizes for the fighters. A great idea, in principle, that was opposed by Carlos Gracie Jr. and his CBJJ, creating an immense divide in the Jiu Jitsu community. For reference: CBJJ organizes the Mundials, CBJJO organized the World Cup.

Nova Uniao went to CBJJO and it would be years before they went back to CBJJ competitions.

Alliance - Founded by Rolls Gracie black belt Romero Jacare, led by "The General", Fabio Gurgel. One of the first attempts at independence, and definitely the most successful. It is the base from which most of Brazil's best teams split from. It has taken many blows over the last few years from athletes quitting. Had a great team, including Telles, Terere, Demian, Comprido, Leozinho, etc.

Brasa-(split from Alliance) formed by Leozinho and Ricardinho, also including Muzio, Felipe Costa, Comprido, Drysdale, and Andre Galvao. Split from Alliance because they wanted to compete in the CBJJO competitions. Eventually split into new teams, with Drysdale going to the US and founding Drysdale JJ, and other athletes splitting which we will see further ahead.

TT Jiu-Jitsu -(Split from Alliance) Formed by Eduardo Telles and Terere, did not last long because Terere quickly sank into a crack habit ( he is almost dead these days, and his family was asking for money to pay for rehab, from where he always escapes). Telles then went ahead and founded...

Nine Nine ( or 99) -( Split from TT Jiu Jitsu) Meant to signify that it is almost perfect (100%). Very new team, has not produced any great champions but Telles is putting a lot of work into it.

Atos - ( split from Brasa) Formed by Ramon Lemos and Andre Galvao. They have in their team the Mendes brothers. With their charisma and a good organization, they managed to attract other good fighters in search of independence ( and the spotlight), including Guto Campos, Calazans, Durinho, Frazzato. Because of the level of guys that came already trained ,Atos is one of the strongest teams in Brazil now.

Check Mat- (Split from Brasa) Run by Leozinho and Ricardinho. Another new team that is making a name for themselves.

BTT ( Split from Carlson) - No big news here. Big fight between Ze Mario, Bustamante and Carlson. They split. Formed their team. Carlson was notoriously hard to deal with.

 

[DonkeyKong]

Where did Rickson learn his yoga from?

What religion his Rickson?

What does he the most important things about martial arts (meditation,base timing etc??)

Where can I find a schedule for his seminars?

-I don't know exactly from whom he learned it, but I am positive that it is Swasthya Yoga. There are many gyms in the world.

-The most important principle behind Helio and Rickson's martial art for fighting is to not take risks. If you mean in terms of values, then both of them advocated the social aspect of Jiu Jitsu: giving confidence to the small and weak, and making them better and more tolerant citizens.

-I'll look into that.

 

[DonkeyKong]

Oh and if the Gracies learned JJ and then changed it a bit to fit there version of self defense i wonder why they continued to use the gi? I mean if GJJ is an art soley used for self defense, i would think they would do away with the gi's (people don't walk around in gi's) and transform the moves to no gi.

There was a mix of conservatism and innovation among the Gracies` development of BJJ. They insisted ( and still do) on the gi as a necessary part of learning jiu jitsu.

Remember that at the time of Carlos and Helio, 60 years ago and more, suits were the standard clothing in Brazil, particularly among the middle and upper classes of bigger cities, such as Rio.

If you get a suit or jacket you will realize that anything you can do on a gi, you can do on a suit and a jacket, and far more violently, because the lapel isn't as thick ( a safety precaution).

Gi training didn't just have the benefits that the Gracies still attiribute it today ( it is unconfortable, favors the development of technique over reliance on explosion and power, etc) but it was the best thing to wear in class to learn how to fight in a realistic situation, because it was almost the same as the regular clothes of the time.


Personally, I have never seen a man walk on the street just in shorts , swimwear, or neoprene shirts (except for the beach, funny how submission clothing is beach clothing), but I do see a lot of people wearing long sleeved shirts, pants, and jacket.

 

[DonkeyKong]

Luta livre came from catch wrestling.
BJJ came from jiu jitsu/judo.

Nowadays, everybody does grappling.

 

[Sloth]

Donkeykong, thanks for posting all of this stuff; very interesting!

 

[Chris_Keller]

Who rolled with Rickson recently? is he still training daily, and if yes, who are his main training partners?