Elections RFK Selected as United States Secretary of Health and Human Services

[DoctorTaco]

banning dangerous pesticides is good


yes you did

Quote me, coward. Where did I say,” the only thing that would happen is lower crop yield?”

All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison. —Paracelsus, 1538

You’d be shocked to know every surface your food touches in a restaurant kitchen has been wiped down with bleach water dozens of times a day. Bleach water can kill you, we’d better stop.

 

[Mr Holmes]

When you say seed oils are inflammatory, and therefor, something, I am genuine curious about where you got that information. What does consumption of seed oil lead to and what does the data say on health outcomes for people who consume seed oils.

The thing is, we went over it earlier, sugar consumptions has decreased in the last few decades while obesity and metabolic diseases have increased. Clearly, sugar in large quantities are unhealthy especially if you're overweight and physically inactive, but I don't see how banning HFCS will make a difference specifically, nor that people wont have plenty of opportunity to consume other sugar alternatives. There is nothing inherently special with HFCS on metabolism.

I don't disagree with banning certain toxic food colorings, I think it'll probably make a modest, but not entirely insignificant, difference in things like some cancer rates. I just don't see how it'll have any impact on the main issue of the obesity epidemic.

I'm not sure when we decided we were only going to focus on the obesity epidemic. I was commenting on overall health.

For the most part I'm not big into reviewing studies. Instead I listen to experts in the field who do that and give me their thoughts. I like the Health Theory podcast and Dr Mark Hymen. Dr Hymen talks at length about the evils of highly processed oils. Maybe you check out some of his stuff on youtube.

I also reject this idea that a calorie is just a calorie. I've listened to both sides of that debate and picked a side. I don't think Americans are fat and sick because they're just too lazy. We've seen a phenomenon where Americans that go on indulgent European vacations find themselves losing weight despite pigging out the whole time. So, at this point there's nothing thats going to convince me our food isn't part of the problem. When you're eating better, you feel better, proper fiber from fruits and veggies will make feel fuller, you'll eat less. Feeling better will lead to more activity and exercise.

Now I gotta get some work done

 

[syct23]

Bull fucking shit.

Truth be told his assessment on Optics is correct for this day in time…

I’m not listening to some fatty fat fat to tell me how I could be in better shape..

But if this were the 1520’s I might take what the fat person had to say. Back then the Optics worked for that time period of being Heavyset projected Health and Wealth.

Today, Not so much…

 

[heloder]

Sherdog leftists out in full force to ensure that bad chemicals get to stay put in our food.

Disingenuous, of course. Nobody wants bad chemicals to get into peoples' food. Farmers don't want to apply pesticides, because it's a lot of money and labor. They do it because it's necessary. It's just that the vast majority of people are completely clueless when it comes to pesticides and their role in agriculture and horticulture. They want their plants and produce to:

A: Be organic and pesticide free.
B: Look perfect.
C: Be inexpensive.

You can have two. If you want it cheap and pretty, it needs pesticides. If you want it pesticide free and looking perfect, it needs to be expensive (because your crop loss is going to be far higher). If you want it cheap and pesticide free, it's not going to look pretty. Hell a lot of people go even further and say they don't want any produce grown indoors, where there actually can be some semblance of IPM control.

 

[Bob Sagat]

Quote me, coward. Where did I say,” the only thing that would happen is lower crop yield?”

we lower crop yield by banning pesticides, deport migrant farm workers causing a labor shortage in the industry, and put tariffs on food imports making them more expensive for corporations to purchase from overseas.

you did it right here

All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison. —Paracelsus, 1538

You’d be shocked to know every surface your food touches in a restaurant kitchen has been wiped down with bleach water dozens of times a day. Bleach water can kill you, we’d better stop.

so we shouldn't be paying attention to what we're putting in our bodies because we should assume that nothing will ever be given to us in quantities that will affect us?

 

[Sano]

You have yet to post a source for any of your claims...

I have in this thread and the other discussing it. Several times. Unless you want to go through each seed oil individually, this video going through the evidence sums it up pretty well. He's without a doubt one of the best and most unbiased ones on youtube, which is rare.



If you'd rather go through it here, we can but it's more time consuming. Lastly, I'm not the one making the actual claim though, which is that they are 'killing us', but I'll go through the evidence anyway.

As far as high fructose corn syrup goes, hopefully these two meta-analysis and a narrative review trial comparing the effect on metabolism and bodyfat to fructose, sucrose and glucose will suffice:

Effect of fructose instead of glucose or sucrose on cardiometabolic markers: a systematic review and meta-analysis of isoenergetic intervention trials​

Isoenergetic substitution of fructose or HFCS for glucose or sucrose has no significant effect on most of the cardiometabolic markers investigated; however, some results were affected by residual between-study heterogeneity and studies with high or unclear risk of bias.

Effect of fructose instead of glucose or sucrose on cardiometabolic markers: a systematic review and meta-analysis of isoenergetic intervention trials - PubMed

PROSPERO registration number CRD42016042930.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The effect of high-fructose corn syrup vs. sucrose on anthropometric and metabolic parameters: A systematic review and meta-analysis​

In conclusion, analysis of data from the literature suggests that HFCS consumption was associated with a higher level of CRP compared to sucrose, whilst no significant changes between the two sweeteners were evident in other anthropometric and metabolic parameters.

The effect of high-fructose corn syrup vs. sucrose on anthropometric and metabolic parameters: A systematic review and meta-analysis - PubMed

High-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) has been speculated to have stronger negative metabolic effects than sucrose. However, given the current equivocality in the field, the aim of the present study was to determine the impact of HFCS use compared to sucrose on anthropometric and metabolic parameters...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Sucrose, High-Fructose Corn Syrup, and Fructose, Their Metabolism and Potential Health Effects: What Do We Really Know?​

At present, we believe that the following conclusions are warranted. First, there is no unique relationship between HFCS and obesity. Second, there is broad scientific consensus that there are no significant metabolic or endocrine response differences or differences in health-related effects between HFCS and sucrose...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2161831322011085

Sherdog leftists out in full force to ensure that bad chemicals get to stay put in our food.

That is not what is happening though. Caring about what is true and what is not true matters. You can't solve a problem if you don't understand it. I don't have any ties to any of this, I want to be healthy and understand what the health data says.

 

[DoctorTaco]

you did it right here

so we shouldn't be paying attention to what we're putting in our bodies because we should assume that nothing will ever be given to us in quantities that will affect us?

Buddy, I understand that reading comprehension can be tough and I’m trying to be nice about it because being nicer is something the mother, the maiden and the crone asked me to do when I was blasted on mushrooms.

I pointed out a thing that would happen. You took it to mean “the only thing”. Your interpretation of my words Is out of my control.

Your other half of the post is chock full of absolutes. To quote the great Hanz and franz, “hear me now and believe me later”. I believe we should have stringent standards for food safety that are regulated by the FDA. I think companies can’t follow these standards should not be able to do business in the states. If the FDA is doing their job then I will continue to go to the grocery store to purchase whatever the fuck is there and stick it directly into my mouth. Apples, Twinkies, whatever.

 

[Rob Battisti]

Of course not. It doesn’t have to be black and white like you’re painting it.

Don’t ban pesticides. Don’t use them in a manner that causes harm to consumers. Stringent FDA testing and standards. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

And you don’t think the appointment gets us closer to that reality?

 

[Islam Imamate]

That is not what is happening though. Caring about what is true and what is not true matters. You can't solve a problem if you don't understand it. I don't have any ties to any of this, I want to be healthy and understand what the health data says.

Most of these guys don't care about the facts of the matter, its all vibes and team sports for them. RFK Jr is their guy so they have to back him facts be damned, its as simple as that.

 

[DoctorTaco]

And you don’t think the appointment gets us closer to that reality?

It is too early for me to tell, but I really hope so. I am concerned that any positives we get From that arm of his policies will not come close to outweighing the damage done By lightening up on vaccine requirements for children.

 

[RoastBeast]

Disingenuous, of course. Nobody wants bad chemicals to get into peoples' food. Farmers don't want to apply pesticides, because it's a lot of money and labor. They do it because it's necessary. It's just that the vast majority of people are completely clueless when it comes to pesticides and their role in agriculture and horticulture. They want their plants and produce to:

A: Be organic and pesticide free.
B: Look perfect.
C: Be inexpensive.

You can have two. If you want it cheap and pretty, it needs pesticides. If you want it pesticide free and looking perfect, it needs to be expensive (because your crop loss is going to be far higher). If you want it cheap and pesticide free, it's not going to look pretty. Hell a lot of people go even further and say they don't want any produce grown indoors, where there actually can be some semblance of IPM control.

I agree that you can't have your cake and eat it too but clearly some changes need to be made. I know a dude who just died of colon cancer at 40 and the cases in younger people are skyrocketing. Something has to be done.

 

[Sano]

I'm not sure when we decided we were only going to focus on the obesity epidemic. I was commenting on overall health.

For the most part I'm not big into reviewing studies. Instead I listen to experts in the field who do that and give me their thoughts. I like the Health Theory podcast and Dr Mark Hymen. Dr Hymen talks at length about the evils of highly processed oils. Maybe you check out some of his stuff on youtube.

I also reject this idea that a calorie is just a calorie. I've listened to both sides of that debate and picked a side. I don't think Americans are fat and sick because they're just too lazy. We've seen a phenomenon where Americans that go on indulgent European vacations find themselves losing weight despite pigging out the whole time. So, at this point there's nothing thats going to convince me our food isn't part of the problem. When you're eating better, you feel better, proper fiber from fruits and veggies will make feel fuller, you'll eat less. Feeling better will lead to more activity and exercise.

Now I gotta get some work done

Fair enough. It's just, that when people are talking about the problem with health in America and that diets are killing people, usually they are talking about obesity, cardiovascular disease and metabolic diseases like diabetes.

I know Hyman and I think he's a quack, but I don't think I can convince you of that, and that's totally fine. I posted a video a few posts above about the evidence on seed oils and it's worth looking at if you'd be so inclined at some point.

I agree, I don't think a calorie is a just a calorie either, specifically because different foods effect out metabolism differently, and are absorbed differently. Take something like calories from fiber, some of which aren't absorbed at all resulting in decrease in net calories. It's small yes, perhaps marginal, but it's there. I think as far as weight goes, calories in and out are pretty solid, but satiety, metabolism and body composition is effected by diet quality. Protein resulting increased lean mass is a good example of that. At the same time, calories definitely do matter and you don't get obese without consuming way too many, for too long.

To touch on your last point, yes our food is generally healthier and less refined, but, I think most Americans lose weight over here because they are way more active, our portions are much smaller, and our food is honestly expensive. As I said before, Americans aren't sick and obese because of the government guidelines, it's not following guidelines that is the problem for the most part.

Anyway, appreciate the conversation and have a good day at work.

 

[Bob Sagat]

I pointed out a thing that would happen. You took it to mean “the only thing”. Your interpretation of my words Is out of my control.

I took it to mean the only thing because it was the only thing you said regarding pesticides in your reply

original post

I’m more interested in RFKs plan to eliminate pesticides in agriculture than his view on vaccines.

your reply

we lower crop yield by banning pesticides, deport migrant farm workers causing a labor shortage in the industry, and put tariffs on food imports making them more expensive for corporations to purchase from overseas.

that's it, that's the context and the extent of the exchange
you are either bad faithing or deficient in explaining your thoughts

 

[Jon!]

America does have a reputation internationally for tolerating low food standards with whack ingredients.

You know, just saying.

I'm not convinced the era of bri science will be any better though. Bro science guys rail against medicine and food standards, then unironically pump themselves full of absolute shit and drug cocktails.

 

[DoctorTaco]

I took it to mean the only thing because it was the only thing you said regarding pesticides in your reply

original post

your reply


that's it, that's the context and the extent of the exchange
you are either bad faithing or deficient in explaining your thoughts

cool. I still didn’t say, “the only.”

I was talking about one of the effects of banning pesticides, in this instance The economical ramifications.

Hope that helps.

 

[Rob Battisti]

It is too early for me to tell, but I really hope so. I am concerned that any positives we get From that arm of his policies will not come close to outweighing the damage done By lightening up on vaccine requirements for children.

Vaccines for kids should be at will IMO.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Vaccines for kids should be at will IMO.

OK, but then stay the fuck out of government institutions such as public schools. Pockets of upper middle-class, white liberal cities are seeing huge upticks In things like measles, mumps, rubella, and other diseases that can easily be inoculated.

Should antibiotics also be at will? If my kid gets sick and I want to heal her with oils, crystals, and good vibes should be my prerogative?

 

[Bob Sagat]

cool. I still didn’t say, “the only.”

I was talking about one of the effects of banning pesticides, in this instance The economical ramifications.

Hope that helps.

by omission you effectively did
you chose to post that, you chose to not list any positive outcomes in service of making a snarky negative post

 

[DoctorTaco]

omission you effectively did

Jesus Christ dude. Maybe go touch some grass if you are focusing more on what somebody isn’t saying rather than what they are.

There is nothing snarky about what I posted. What I laid out is a combination of policies being floated by the incoming administration.

 

[Hdfi]

Better than that tranny guy who has a fetish for blocking little boys' testosterone.