Revisiting eye pokes, Cejudo vs Song

[CroCopsLHK]

So I've heard a lot about Cejudo trying to game the system, Song's eye pokes being unintentional...

Despite the result, that's another can of worms. What i saw was Henry get poked and couldn't continue and Song won after that stoppage. I saw Cejudos eye bleed.

What caused the eyepoke, the innocuous outstretched hand, I've seen some referees try to dictate. I'd like to know if that should be a legal position. I mean I've heard of fighters trying to "feel distance" or maybe they want to keep their hands up and it takes more effort to have closed fists. The dynamic of the fight i saw was Henry was outsized and had no wrestling outside fakes, he got most his work done by darting in with combos. He was shorter and had to rush in, hence the eyepoke

I don't know what else he could've done but it seems a bit unfair. An exculpatiry factor is I don't believe Song has a history of eyepokes, but now I sort of see him as a Jon Jones. And I know Song was winning but it seemed a little close to me

I feel eyepokes should be worth a point with serious damage. I don't like the way things turned out with the TD. I know Henry gets a bad rap, he's on a loss streak and may have lost again, but i see nothing good for Song either

 

[Flower2dPeople]

 

[CroCopsLHK]

It's been a long time problem. I'm thinking of Browne vs Mittrione. You can't ask the fighter about it because why would they snitch on themselves. They want to win at all costs. I just want to know the truth. How to fix it

Fighters need to see and fights need to happen

 

[maximus__]

So I've heard a lot about Cejudo trying to game the system, Song's eye pokes being unintentional...

Despite the result, that's another can of worms. What i saw was Henry get poked and couldn't continue and Song won after that stoppage. I saw Cejudos eye bleed.

What caused the eyepoke, the innocuous outstretched hand, I've seen some referees try to dictate. I'd like to know if that should be a legal position. I mean I've heard of fighters trying to "feel distance" or maybe they want to keep their hands up and it takes more effort to have closed fists. The dynamic of the fight i saw was Henry was outsized and had no wrestling outside fakes, he got most his work done by darting in with combos. He was shorter and had to rush in, hence the eyepoke

I don't know what else he could've done but it seems a bit unfair. An exculpatiry factor is I don't believe Song has a history of eyepokes, but now I sort of see him as a Jon Jones. And I know Song was winning but it seemed a little close to me

I feel eyepokes should be worth a point with serious damage. I don't like the way things turned out with the TD. I know Henry gets a bad rap, he's on a loss streak and may have lost again, but i see nothing good for Song either

The second he continued to hold his fingers out, Song should have lost a point.
Henry was losing but it's a 5 round fight and he could have made something happen.

 

[5crew]

Two ways to go about it.
1. Eye poke - immediate point taken.
2. Eye poke - strict warning, if fingers is out stretch again, point taken, regardless if it causes a second eye poke.

I'm a kind person, so probably prefer #2 to give a benefit of a doubt for first foul. But won't be angry if #1 was set a rule.

EDIT:
No fighters should be allowed to charge forward, or backward with hand stretched out at the head position of the opponent. Muay Thai Plum only allowed when in standing/grappling position I guess, but tbh we rarely see it now.

 

[CroCopsLHK]

Two ways to go about it.
1. Eye poke - immediate point taken.
2. Eye poke - strict warning, if fingers is out stretch again, point taken, regardless if it causes a second eye poke.

I'm a kind person, so probably prefer #2 to give a benefit of a doubt for first foul. But won't be angry if #1 was set a rule.

EDIT:
No fighters should be allowed to charge forward, or backward with hand stretched out at the head position of the opponent. Muay Thai Plum only allowed when in standing/grappling position I guess, but tbh we rarely see it now.

Or even stationary. Fighters hold it up like a shield and ram it into fighters eyes when they come in and act like it's an accident. How could anyone rule if it's intentional or not? I think outstretched fingers should be banned all together

We've seen tens (hundreds?) Of thousands of fights without this being a problem. I don't think that hand position is justified at all. We've seen referees yell at JJ for doing it so why isn't it a regular thing. It should be time to demonize it altogether. And with Song darting out afterwards with his fingers post break was just insult to injury. He had an agenda that night and totally shat on his resumee

 

[CroCopsLHK]

Two ways to go about it.
1. Eye poke - immediate point taken.
2. Eye poke - strict warning, if fingers is out stretch again, point taken, regardless if it causes a second eye poke.

I'm a kind person, so probably prefer #2 to give a benefit of a doubt for first foul. But won't be angry if #1 was set a rule.

EDIT:
No fighters should be allowed to charge forward, or backward with hand stretched out at the head position of the opponent. Muay Thai Plum only allowed when in standing/grappling position I guess, but tbh we rarely see it now.

But yes i for sure agree with you. If it was so much as one point taken it would discourage the behavior severely

 

[mangokush]

Eyepokes should be legal

If you are allowing your opponent to get their hands within the distance to eyepoke it is exposing the lack of defense you have

 

[Dr Fong]

My personal experience of that fight was Jason Herzog ramming an official Power Slap-branded fork into both of my eyes before violently raping me out of the last leg of a good parlay.

 

[pinero]

Eyepokes should be legal

If you are allowing your opponent to get their hands within the distance to eyepoke it is exposing the lack of defense you have

 

[EYEKICKFACES]

I think Henry just wanted out of that fight.

 

[shunyata]

Honestly I think Henry forced the foul.

They showed a slo mo of the poke that did the damage over and over again and you can see song's hand held upright with fingers slightly curled waiting to parry a punch.

Cejudo throws an overhand, coming forward hard while dropping his head and drives his face directly into the parry hand.

Song's hand is not moving forward at the time of impact, all the forward momentum is Henry's head driving in.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

If they don't want to adapt the gloves or enforce the rules as they exist, perhaps an alternative solution is to give the referee the ability to have access to replays during the break.

So in this instance, while Cejudo was taking his 5, the doctor could be the one to come in and talk to the fighter while the referee, seeing the severity of the poke, can view replays of what caused it.

They could then use their judgement from the replays to assess whether a point should be taken before the action resumes.

 

[Dr. Rose]

Everyone who reaches out with their fingers extended has committed a foul if you look at the rules, at least in my opinion.

Number 9 on the fouls:
"Fingers outstretched toward an opponent’s face/eyes. In the standing position, a fighter that moves their arm(s) toward their opponent with an openhand, fingers pointing at the opponent’s face/eyes, will be a foul. Referees are to prevent this dangerous behavior by communicating clearly to fighters. Fighters are directed to close their fists or point their fingers straight up in the air when reaching toward their opponent."

This means that every eye poke by Jones should have resulted in a point (or two) deducted foul.

 

[TheComputerGuy]

Best way to fight MMA is open the fight with a good double eye poke. Quickly follow up with a groin kick. You won't lose a point or be DQed. Now you are fighting a blind fighter in a lot of pain from the groin kick.

 

[OmegaRugal]

Until points are deducted, fighters will not train to prevent eye pokes.

Song literally kept his fingers pointing towards Triple C even after the eye poke and why should he change it … it helped him win.


It’s a great strategy especially for tall lengthy fighters to keep opponents at bay. Ask Jones.

Whether Song needed the eye pokes or not doesn’t matter. He still won in part thanks to the eye poke and there is no reason to not stick ur hand out with fingers pointing forward.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Everyone who reaches out with their fingers extended has committed a foul if you look at the rules, at least in my opinion.

Number 9 on the fouls:
"Fingers outstretched toward an opponent’s face/eyes. In the standing position, a fighter that moves their arm(s) toward their opponent with an openhand, fingers pointing at the opponent’s face/eyes, will be a foul. Referees are to prevent this dangerous behavior by communicating clearly to fighters. Fighters are directed to close their fists or point their fingers straight up in the air when reaching toward their opponent."

This means that every eye poke by Jones should have resulted in a point (or two) deducted foul.

Wasnt that rule actually introduced in the wake of Jones fights in the mid 2010's?

 

[Psychojoe86]

It's going to take time I suppose, but officials need to start recognizing that fighters are picking up on the trend with these eyepokes. They are deemed 'accidental' fouls nearly every time, so the fighters are prepared to capitalize on how they impact the fight, just like how Cejudo tried to game the system last Saturday. It backfired and he lost, but it did give him the chance to snag a decision in a fight he was otherwise hopelessly losing.

 

[rorschach51]

Best way to fight MMA is open the fight with a good double eye poke. Quickly follow up with a groin kick. You won't lose a point or be DQed. Now you are fighting a blind fighter in a lot of pain from the groin kick.

 

[Dr. Rose]

Wasnt that rule actually introduced in the wake of Jones fights in the mid 2010's?

It was after Jones started doing it but mid 2010s seems late. I was thinking it was like 2012-13, but I cannot find it right now. Might do a deeper dive when I get some free time. I definitely believe it was before the Glover fight.