Rating the Supplements

Terumo said:
26) Soy Protein (Powder)
POSSIBLY HARMFUL. Forget that--definitely harmful. I know this is a touchy subject, as there are many, many soy users out there, so all I'm going to say is that I've read enough in vivo studies to make most individuals' eyes bleed. Almost every time, the conclusion is the same regarding soy and hormone levels, and it is not a good thing. If I need to divulge, I will, but that is all I'm saying for now.

Way too broad of a subject. These compounds can be anything from extremely healthful (e.g. citrus bioflavonoids, quercetin) to quite harmful (e.g. daidzein, genistein)
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Yeah, I'd like to hear what you've said, because several in here have asked about estrogen levels being raised by soy, but I'd read that was a myth (misinformation is rife in the vegetarian world).

Looks like you might have been right, after all, Chad.
 
TTT.

Want Terumo's input on the soy when he gets the time.

BTW, eyes bleeding is one thing. I'm interested to hear how soy powders harm the hormone system, but I still seriously doubt that they would cause gynecomastia (that was the myth debunked that I read about...not eyes bleeding).

*EDIT* I read Terumo's post SO wrong. He said he'd read studies until his eyes bled, not that soy makes people's eyes "bleed".
 
Terumo, we completely forgot:

30) Glucose-Electrolyte Solutions (Gatorade, Accelerade, etc.)

You don't have to comment on the soy if you don't want to. Entropy posted a lot of great studies in the thread "Vegan Bodybuilding" in the S&P forum.
 
Madmick said:
Terumo, we completely forgot:

30) Glucose-Electrolyte Solutions (Gatorade, Accelerade, etc.)

You don't have to comment on the soy if you don't want to. Entropy posted a lot of great studies in the thread "Vegan Bodybuilding" in the S&P forum.
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Wow. This one really got buried. Haha. I linked this as per a poster's request and looked back over it. Anyhow, I am quite certain your soy and carbo/electro formula questions have been answered in the past year.

~Terumo
 
I've got a question, With ephedra illegal and ephedrine getting harder to get ahold of (eventually they are going to make it illegal or damn near impossible to obtain) what would you reccomend as the next best thing for a thermogenic. I always assumed it would be Synephrine but apparently I was wrong.
 
I read a blog about the short and long term benefits of bull testicles. I think its the wave of the future.
 
Thanks for all the info Terumo.

Maybe I missed, but did you go over Fish Oil?

What about Guarana powder? What about Guarana drink?

What about Madmick's question regarding Glucose-Electrolyte solutions like Gatorade?

Lastly, could you give some suggestions on how do a guy like me, w/ not much time or money on his hands, can make the best out of all the info you shared? What supplement(s) do you suggest for supporting a bigger, stronger and ripped body for someone w/ a good bodytype?
 
Great thread. I can't believe that this is the first I've seen it.

Terumo (Madmick or anyone else with an opinion), in regards to HMB Terumo posted the following...

Terumo said:
Absolute fucking WASTE OF TIME. Study after study demonstrates HMB to be ineffective at slowing muscle wasting in everything but sedentary or bed-ridden adults.
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I agree that HMB is a waste but what caught my eye is that it MAY help with sedentary adults. My question is this, would HMB be beneficial directly after a surgery where inactivity is necessary and the chance of losing excessive muscle is certain?

I'll give you a real life example for more specificity. In the past I've had some real bad luck with my shoulders. I've had 3 surgeries and I'm currently recovering from the third (2 weeks in). During my first two surgeries I lost between 18-20lbs of total body weight which I can only assume was mostly muscle. In this scenario, would you consider HMB to still be worthless or is this an exception where you may consider supplementing with it? My guess is that it's still worthless but I'd like to here opinions.
 
Monger said:
Great thread. I can't believe that this is the first I've seen it.

Terumo (Madmick or anyone else with an opinion), in regards to HMB Terumo posted the following...



I agree that HMB is a waste but what caught my eye is that it MAY help with sedentary adults. My question is this, would HMB be beneficial directly after a surgery where inactivity is necessary and the chance of losing excessive muscle is certain?

I'll give you a real life example for more specificity. In the past I've had some real bad luck with my shoulders. I've had 3 surgeries and I'm currently recovering from the third (2 weeks in). During my first two surgeries I lost between 18-20lbs of total body weight which I can only assume was mostly muscle. In this scenario, would you consider HMB to still be worthless or is this an exception where you may consider supplementing with it? My guess is that it's still worthless but I'd like to here opinions.
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I honestly know nothing specifically about HMB, but if it's not too expensive I would say try it and see if it helps. You've got a situation where you have nothing to lose, so it's worth a shot.
 
Clint07 said:
I honestly know nothing specifically about HMB, but if it's not too expensive I would say try it and see if it helps. You've got a situation where you have nothing to lose, so it's worth a shot.
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HMB is fairly expensive. Not only is it expensive but I have a feeling that dosages would probably have to be much higher than what is recommended for it to be effective. I'm at the point now where I can do some activity but without heavy lifting it's hard to keep muscle from wasting away.

Not to mention that surgery seems to put enough stress on a body that muscle deteriorates much faster than normal... that's just my assumption from experience. I don't know if that's ever been proven. All I know is that I tend to dump weight fast after surgery and it's depressing...
 
This is what Oregon State University has found on soy and its actions in the body.

Isoflavones are a class of phytoestrogens
 
I'd like to see where Cissus Quadrangularis ranks
 
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