Rating the Supplements

Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by Madmick, Jul 26, 2005.

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  1. Madmick

    Madmick Zugzwang Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Okay, I've alluded to Susan Kleiner's "Power Eating" on here multiple times, but in the past I've been too lazy to quote it in depth. Chapter 7 of the book is entitled "Muscle Building Products" and discusses at length a number of the current generation of sports supplements (by no means a complete list). She categorizes the supplements into four lists:
    1) Definitely Worth It
    2) Possibly Useful
    3) Wasting Your Time
    4) Potentially Harmful
    I won't reproduce the entire chapter with explications of the usefulness of each supplement, but I will post the chart. The book's publication date was 2001.


    DEFINITELY WORTH IT
    Carbohydrate/Protein Sports Drinks
    Creatine
    Weight Gain Powders
    Glucose-electrolyte solutions
    Caffeine

    POSSIBLY USEFUL
    BCAA's
    Carnitine
    CoEnzyme Q10
    Glucosamine/Chondroitin Sulfate
    Glutamine
    Glycerol
    HMB
    MCT Oil
    Protein Supplements
    Ribose
    Taurine
    Zinc-Magnesium

    WASTING YOUR TIME
    CLA
    Inosine
    Pyruvate
    Tryptophan

    POTENTIALLY HARMFUL
    Amino Acids
    Bee Pollen
    DHEA
    DMG
    GBL
    Plant Sterols


    *EDIT*: Amino Acids and Bee Pollen belong in the "Potentially Harmful" category. Sorry, my mistake.
     
    Madmick, Jul 26, 2005
    #1
  2. Boondocksaint

    Boondocksaint Guest

    I'd add fish and flax seed oils to the definately worth it category
     
    Boondocksaint, Jul 26, 2005
    #2
  3. ragefactor

    ragefactor Yellow Belt

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    Glutamine

    Move it up a category, Do it now!!
     
    ragefactor, Jul 26, 2005
    #3
  4. Tom_4

    Tom_4 Blue Belt

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    Nitric oxide and Tribulus terrestris are in the 1st category too IMO
     
    Tom_4, Jul 26, 2005
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  5. TKMaxx715

    TKMaxx715 saggy pants

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    ehh id actually move glutamine down to wasting your time if anything. Most whey has glutamine in it anyways and glutamine isnt really all that much needed in your body taking in protein. Id throw weight gainers and creatine to possibly useful and protein supps along with adding fish oil to definately worth it.]

    Where would you guys stick shark cartilage? I know they help joint pain but does fish oil cover that job pretty well? Should i take both?
     
    TKMaxx715, Jul 26, 2005
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  6. Madmick

    Madmick Zugzwang Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I'm confident fish oil pills and multivitamins would appear there if Susan wasn't a bit of a diet nazi and insisted these could be yielded from whole foods (if you follow her plans, you wouldn't need to supplement these).
     
    Madmick, Jul 27, 2005
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  7. Madmick

    Madmick Zugzwang Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I think there's still some back and forth on this one. I use it. But this isn't my chart, so it's staying where it's at.
     
    Madmick, Jul 27, 2005
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  8. Madmick

    Madmick Zugzwang Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Weight gainers belong in the top category. They do what they say. You can't argue with macros. Creatine belongs in the #1 category, too.

    I'm pretty sure shark cartilage is bogus.
     
    Madmick, Jul 27, 2005
    #8
  9. Rjkd12

    Rjkd12 Certified Bastard

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    Rjkd12, Jul 27, 2005
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  10. my big toe

    my big toe Yellow Belt

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    Amino acids, plant sterols harmful? Everything I've read or heard says just the opposite. Plant sterols or "phytosterals" can be used to lower cholesterol levels. Phytosterals are the plant form of cholesterol, which competes with the body's cholesterol receptors and can help lower blood cholesterol levels.

    New USDA Study Shows Plant Sterols Lower Cholesterol
    http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2000/000418.htm
     
    my big toe, Jul 27, 2005
    #10
  11. Boondocksaint

    Boondocksaint Guest



    I like Nitric Oxide, but I don't know about putting it in the top category.
     
    Boondocksaint, Jul 27, 2005
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  12. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I actually disagree with most of that list.

    CLA - Have clients who have used it successfully, moreso than those who legitimately tried it and reported it did not work (when I say legitimately I mean with proper eating and exercise, not just taking the pill and expecting magic to happen).

    Pyruvate - I read an article where a PHD recommends it for purposes of fat mobilization (similar to Carnitine), and the studies I've read that claim to disclaim it seem largely alarmist in nature.

    5-HTP (Tryptophan) - Works as a relaxant, one of our best-selling products for anti-stress.

    And how are Amino Acids listed in the potentially harmful category when there are amino acids suggested above in the higher categories. BCAA's, Glutamine, Carnitine, come now. Which aminos are going to kill me, Arginine? Lysine? Tyrosine (which will actually enhance the affects of a fat-burner)?

    DHEA - I take it, I'm alive and healthy and can pass a steroid test.

    Bee Pollen - How in the Hell is that potentially harmful? Another one of our best-sellers either by itself or with Ginseng, and Royal Jelly. I think Caffeine is more harmful tentatively to those with pre-existing blood-pressure problems and/or heart-conditions than Bee Pollen could be.
     
    Sinister, Jul 27, 2005
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  13. Timbaland

    Timbaland Black Belt

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    Weight gainers don't belong in the definitely useful category. Most of them are empty carbs. There are make your own weight gainer recipes out there. Most of them consist of oatmeal, protein powder, natural peanut butter, and milk. Thats a lot better than the crap you buy in stores.

    Like King Kabuki said CLA (and the other EFAs for that matter) are beneficial. Recommended dosage of CLA is 3.4 grams a day. They can lower your body fat with a proper diet and exercise plan.

    Glutamine is very useful on a cutting diet.

    BCAAs are good. I believe your body absorbs it faster than protein. I don't really take it though as I use protein powder. I assume it would be good to take with meals and maybe pre-workout. Dessicated liver tabs are a good and cheap source of amino acids. If you have high cholesterol, you may not want to take them though.
     
    Timbaland, Jul 27, 2005
    #13
  14. Tom_4

    Tom_4 Blue Belt

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    I use it in a supplement that combines it with a creatine complex and glutamine and it works miracles compared to just creatine. And creatine is in the first category.
    What's your take on tribulus?
     
    Tom_4, Jul 27, 2005
    #14
  15. Boondocksaint

    Boondocksaint Guest


    I've always stacked it with creatine as well. I'm actually a glutamine responder, I used to take it before bed and found that it reduced soreness, but because of its cost, I no longer use it. That being said, glutamine does not work on everyone, and doesn't belong on the same list as creatine. Though a creatine, NO2, glutamine is an excellent (and expensive!) stack.

    i've looked into Tribulus, but have never used it personally.
     
    Boondocksaint, Jul 27, 2005
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  16. Tom_4

    Tom_4 Blue Belt

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    I'm not sure, but if you can find reflex products in the US you can give it a shot. I consider it the most effective supplement out there, performance and cost-wise.

    That's the link:
    http://www.reflex-nutrition.com/sports_supplements/power__strength/document_4_4.php
    It says something about retailers on the bottom right of the page.
     
    Tom_4, Jul 28, 2005
    #16
  17. Boondocksaint

    Boondocksaint Guest


    hmmm...couldn't find the relfex brand, but I found some tribulus products for pretty cheap...I'll look into it. Maybe I'll try some on my next order.

    I imagine that reflex brand isn't cheap. I have a gut feeling I could make my own stack for much cheaper...but I could be wrong :D
     
    Boondocksaint, Jul 28, 2005
    #17
  18. Tom_4

    Tom_4 Blue Belt

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    Reflex is a british company, so you'll probably have trouble finding it overseas. Its prices are about the same as ON's (at least in the UK).
    The Tri-Matrix costs 39 pounds (UK internet retailer-should be about $60).Each serving has 5g of creatine(not Monohydrate-the good stuff), 5g of NO and 3g of glutamine plus 500mg Taurine and some more stuff. One container has 50 servings, good for 50 days. I couldn't beat it, but you can always try for yourself...
     
    Tom_4, Jul 28, 2005
    #18
  19. Gwillimall

    Gwillimall White Belt

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    L-Glutamine 500 is $4.99 for 50 capsules at GNC
     
    Gwillimall, Jul 28, 2005
    #19
  20. Madmick

    Madmick Zugzwang Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    TTT. Dragging this one up for more debate.
     
    Madmick, Oct 20, 2005
    #20
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