Ranking the Top 10 WMMA GOATs

[BFoe]

It's true that Kobold has at least ten wins over girls who never won a fight, and most of them are 0-1 for their careers. So yeah. She does have wins over ladies like Shayna Baszler and Adrienne Jenkins.

But Anderson is a can. She's got that flukey win over Zingano, but otherwise Zingano beats her eleven out of ten times.

Baszler is a good win, but that was like Shayna’s 3rd pro fight. And the Baszler win is about all Kobold’s got. Megan isn’t great but Charmaine Tweet is probability a better win that most of Kobold resume, and Megan’s also got Dumont and Cat. I don’t think it’s totally wrong to call the win over Cat “flukey” though. I think I’d rank Megan ahead of someone like Kobold. Not in the top 20 though for either one.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Roids or not, she's a legitimate featherweight. The only way for those fights to happen was for someone to challenge her at 145. Everyone was shook. De Randamie was so shook she gave up a belt. They even made a TUF season to find her competition at 145 and everyone from that season fled the division.

She came to the UFC and her first three fights were against unranked 135ers. That wasn't her fault. That was the best the UFC could find for her until Holly and Nunes were willing to give it a shot.

She became a legitimate FW, and then made a career of fighting BW and FLWs. There's no need to ignore the obvious when Cyborg has a second fight with little Leslie Smith upcoming.

Cyborg is a very good fighter, but she's been much more of a can crusher than most of the other girls on this list. One of my favorite Cyborg fights was her muy thai bout with Baars. She got beat up pretty badly in the early going, but showed a ton of heart and made a fight of it.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Baszler is a good win, but that was like Shayna’s 3rd pro fight. And the Baszler win is about all Kobold’s got. Megan isn’t great but Charmaine Tweet is probability a better win that most of Kobold resume, and Megan’s also got Dumont and Cat. I don’t think it’s totally wrong to call the win over Cat “flukey” though. I think I’d rank Megan ahead of someone like Kobold. Not in the top 20 though for either one.

Haha, you aren't wrong, and even if you were, I'm already over my life time allotment of posts about Kelly Kobold.

 

[Woliwo]

I would have Megumi Fuji (come on she doesn't have a single loss that wasn't controversial) and Yuka Tsuji in the top 10.
TBF they was great during the dark ages of WMMA and hard to compare fighters active today, so I understand why they are so overlooked.
But I do agree with ranking Joanna above Rose. Sure Rose do have some high quality wins, but she never had a dominant reign.
I also struggling to see why a green 2-1 Hill and PVZ should count as notable wins.

 

[BFoe]

I understand why OP might rank Megumi Fujii as an Honorable Mention based on the criteria used, but I don't quite agree with it.

Fujii has no names on her resume because at the time, there were no names. Which names were there at ~115 back in the day? Everyone looked mediocre because, well, everyone except her was mediocre. Women's MMA in the mid-2000s was a joke if you weren't a 135er. She was the consensus best fighter in WMMA for a long time and, I don't think she has more than one legitimate loss.

It's like saying Royce Gracie was never all that good because his list of wins are mostly against middling at best competition. Who's his best win, Dan Severn probably?

I would never say Royce isn’t any good. I just wouldn’t rank him in my Top 10. Same with Fuji. It’s a good analogy. Fuji is a great fighter and a pioneer (like Royce) but I don’t think she’d hang with a lot of the fighters on this list, and she doesn’t have the accomplishments to justify the ranking to me.

Also, I don't know how you can say she has no notable wins, but then include Kathlyn Chookagian and Jessica Maia as a notable wins for Shevchenko or Felicia Spencer for Nunes. Sorry, being "good enough" to be the #1 contender in the worst divisions does not make it a notable win.

What other way should I determine a notable win? Chookagian was a title challenger and has wins over Calvillo, A. Schevchenko, Calderwood, Alexis Davis, Maia, Aldana....Chookagian is definitely a notable win.
As to Fuji, I didn’t say she had no notable wins. She’s beaten people who held championships in various orgs/weight classes. But she never held a major title and had defenses herself, and I don’t think her notable wins stack up to these other fighters on my list. You’re right that she comes from a different era, so we’ll never know how she matches up with today’s fighters. I suspect the top girls could handle her. But she’s great, and def Top 15 all time to me, which is saying something.

 

[aerius]

I think Megami Fuji has to be on any women's all time list. She was the original WMMA goat a decade ago and I'd argue she only has one legitimate loss, and even then, I could be swayed that none of them were legit.

I think a big problem with Fuji is putting her wins in context. We have a number of videos of Fuji's fights so we know how she fights and how she did against her opponents, but there's not much footage of her opponents' other fights so it's hard to say how good they really were. We don't know if their fights against Fuji were representative of their usual abilities or if they had an off night or really good night. We have lots of footage of most fighters within the last 10 years or so and can get a fairly good idea of how good the actually are and how they match up against various styles of opponents, we don't really have that from the fighters of Fuji's time.

 

[BFoe]

Fuji went 26-3 with one of her losses a clear robbery and the other 2 highly contested. She didn't have a legitimate loss until she aged out of the sport at 38. I don't see how you can put Julia Budd above her.

I mean, I listed the criteria I used in the OP. This stuff is always subjective, so if you have different criteria, I’m cool with that. But under what criteria are we ranking Fuji that high? Check out what @aerius said below, and I’ll elaborate on it a bit.

I think a big problem with Fuji is putting her wins in context. We have a number of videos of Fuji's fights so we know how she fights and how she did against her opponents, but there's not much footage of her opponents' other fights so it's hard to say how good they really were. We don't know if their fights against Fuji were representative of their usual abilities or if they had an off night or really good night. We have lots of footage of most fighters within the last 10 years or so and can get a fairly good idea of how good the actually are and how they match up against various styles of opponents, we don't really have that from the fighters of Fuji's time.

I totally agree. This is the tough thing with Fuji. Aside from the fact that she never had a significant title win and champ run, if I look at what I’d consider as her notable wins it’s much weaker than the other fighters on my list.
For example Fuji beat Lisa Ellis, who had the FFF FLW title at one point, so I guess I’d call that a notable win. But if you examine Ellis’ record, she got that title basically beating no-names, and she’s lost to any remotely notable fighter she’s fought. Her best win is Jessica Aguilar, but that was in Aguilar’s 1st pro fight and Aguilar later avenged the loss. Ellis also lost to Jessica Penne, Felice Herrig, Bec Rawlings, Virna Jandiroba...for Fuji to beat Ellis is just not that significant. Likewise Mika Nagano is an ok win, and Nagano won a Grand Prix in Jewels, so there’s that. But again, Nagano’s resume isn’t special when you look at who she’s fought.
This is the stuff that Fuji’s resume is full of. So to answer @blaseblah question to me: when I look at someone like Julia Budd, she has far less pro fights than Fuji. But she was a Bellator champ with 3 defenses, and has wins over Marloes, GDR, Blencowe x 2, Nogueira, even Tweet. I think Budd has to be ranked higher. No disrespect intended for Fuji.

 

[Joseph Alfano]

Cyborg is a multi-time confirmed cheat,weight bully, and her resume is built on scrubs. First time she faces a legit opponent in years, it's a bantamweight who knocks her out in less than a minute.Lot's of fighters out there in places like Brazil and Russia with crazy records, yet nobody credits them like they do Cyborg. Why? lack of competition, just like Cyborg.

Congrats on describing khabib, that would've been him in a year or 2 had he not retired at like 30

 

[leto1776]

I would have Megumi Fuji (come on she doesn't have a single loss that wasn't controversial) and Yuka Tsuji in the top 10.
TBF they was great during the dark ages of WMMA and hard to compare fighters active today, so I understand why they are so overlooked.
But I do agree with ranking Joanna above Rose. Sure Rose do have some high quality wins, but she never had a dominant reign.
I also struggling to see why a green 2-1 Hill and PVZ should count as notable wins.

Yuka Tsuji always gets overlooked in favor of Fujii

Congrats on describing khabib, that would've been him in a year or 2 had he not retired at like 30

<Oku02> it’s funny because it’s true

 

[reigning terroe]

Doesn't change that she's inconsistent as hell, and can never keep the momentum going.

So who’s the straw weight goat if it’s not her?

 

[leto1776]

So who’s the straw weight goat if it’s not her?

There is none. The division has been around for a grand total of six years in the UFC

 

[Eater of Souls]

I enjoyed Gina’s fights, but her resume is not good at all. I can’t justify her in the Top 15, honestly.

No kidding. She fought primarily smaller women and only seven fights before losing to Cyborg then quitting.

 

[blaseblah]

She became a legitimate FW, and then made a career of fighting BW and FLWs. There's no need to ignore the obvious when Cyborg has a second fight with little Leslie Smith upcoming.

Cyborg is a very good fighter, but she's been much more of a can crusher than most of the other girls on this list. One of my favorite Cyborg fights was her muy thai bout with Baars. She got beat up pretty badly in the early going, but showed a ton of heart and made a fight of it.

Legitimate as in she can't make bantamweight. Fighting 135ers was the best thing for her resume because 145 has sucked her entire career. The problem was the best 135ers wouldn't fight her until Holly and Nunes.

 

[blaseblah]

I mean, I listed the criteria I used in the OP. This stuff is always subjective, so if you have different criteria, I’m cool with that. But under what criteria are we ranking Fuji that high? Check out what

You can't argue she doesn't have good enough wins and then put Julia Budd on your list.

 

[Pastinaca1]

There is literally no argument for Gina being on any GOAT list.

She was hot, I'll give you that. She got a lot of people into WMMA. But her resume is not particularly impressive, let alone GOAT status.

Oh God, we are talking about Wmma. You can not put words like “impressive resume” when talking about WMMA.

It is basically a league of cans fighting each other. And the least worst of them are the ones who become champions.

Gina defeated nobodies? Yes, she did, because the whole wmma is full of nobodies.
Who has Marlos Coenen defeated? Modafferi? Lol

So, making a list of WMMA Goats is funny and no one should take it seriously.

But, ok let’s go.

1- Nunes
2- Shevchenko
3- Megumi Fuji
4- Cyborg
5- Namajunas
6- Zhang
7- JJ
8- Rousey
9- Carano
10- Holm

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Legitimate as in she can't make bantamweight. Fighting 135ers was the best thing for her resume because 145 has sucked her entire career. The problem was the best 135ers wouldn't fight her until Holly and Nunes.

She chose not to be able to make bantamweight by using steroids to bulk up. Bulking up and fighting down helped her create her mystique; it's also what hurts her legacy long term. She was a can crusher; and even when her opponents weren't cans, they were usually undersized.

She's a good fighter and has an aggressive, fan friendly style. I think she would have ruled BW when it was getting max exposure, but she would have had to focus more on technique and less on enhanced physicality.

 

[Simple Southerner]

Good thread / list

 

[Ares Black]

Oh God, we are talking about Wmma. You can not put words like “impressive resume” when talking about WMMA.

It is basically a league of cans fighting each other. And the least worst of them are the ones who become champions.

Gina defeated nobodies? Yes, she did, because the whole wmma is full of nobodies.
Who has Marlos Coenen defeated? Modafferi? Lol

So, making a list of WMMA Goats is funny and no one should take it seriously.

But, ok let’s go.

1- Nunes
2- Shevchenko
3- Megumi Fuji
4- Cyborg
5- Namajunas
6- Zhang
7- JJ
8- Rousey
9- Carano
10- Holm

Lol. Not your best work.

 

[BFoe]

You can't argue she doesn't have good enough wins and then put Julia Budd on your list.

Could you elaborate on who you think Fuji has on her resume that’s better than who I listed for Budd? Like I said, here’s no doubt Fuji was more active and has more wins. Who on Fuji’s resume is equal to GDR? Or Marloes?

Good thread / list

Thanks Sherbro, much appreciated!

 

[Kyojiro Kagenuma]

Oh God, we are talking about Wmma. You can not put words like “impressive resume” when talking about WMMA.

It is basically a league of cans fighting each other. And the least worst of them are the ones who become champions.

Gina defeated nobodies? Yes, she did, because the whole wmma is full of nobodies.
Who has Marlos Coenen defeated? Modafferi? Lol

So, making a list of WMMA Goats is funny and no one should take it seriously.

But, ok let’s go.

1- Nunes
2- Shevchenko
3- Megumi Fuji
4- Cyborg
5- Namajunas
6- Zhang
7- JJ
8- Rousey
9- Carano
10- Holm

Putting Zhang above JJ is absolutely absurd.