Questions about amateur kickboxing bouts

[roventu]

Attended my first amateur kickboxing/muay thai event few months ago, and I was thinking there's a lot of rules that affect the strategy, also differences from sparring

1. Fighters had to wear protective headgear and shin pads during fights

-> Since the body is unprotected, would prioritizing body shots (over strikes to head/legs) be a more effective strategy?

-> From ppl that have watched more low-level amateur fights, would you say there are more ppl that get KO/TKO'd from body shots, or head strikes? (For the record, there were not many T/KOs at the event i attended, the 3 that got finished, were all females, by punches to head)

-> since your own shin pads significantly dampen impact of your leg kicks, should you try using kicks that utilize the heel more? (this is a kinda stupid question, but i had to ask lol). Should you use leg kicks more for point-scorers instead of damage

2. Fighting shirtless as opposed to clothed

-> Are there any major differences to shirtless fighting? I have only sparred with a shirt on. In regards to clinching, techniques slipping off sweaty opponent

3. Fighting 2 successive fights in one night

-> How do you prepare for your 2nd fight? (would like to hear personal experience), do you take a nap in-between, should you have a big meal.

4. Scoring

-> Are strikes to head counted more than strikes to leg? If you throw someone in clinch, but both fall to ground, is it scored for person that ends up on top or none because both fell?


Thanks to all who contribute to the discussion. Personal experience is much appreciated

 

[Kiwi Tricker]

1- I've never fought in head gear. In NZ wearing head gear is very uncommon, only happens with juniors usually, and even then is optional. You also only wear shin pads for up to your first 3 fights. After that, you have to forgo them. Wearing 16s means to drop someone with a body shot in a fight you have to be on your game. Usually the easiest thing to drop someone with would still be a punch in the face.

2- You won't get tangled on anything when shirtless. Also, don't forget the oily rubdown. You can't fight without liniment oil all on ya.

3- Who the fuck fights twice in one night? Unless part of a 4- or 8-man tournament (which is a fairly high-level thing to do generally), you'd only fight once. Even then you just have enough time to relax for a little bit, plan your next fight, then warm up and get out again.

4- Scoring is complex. Punches are worth less in general than kicks. A solid knee from outside the clinch is a very high-scoring move. Generally though, damage and effect is prioritised. Sweeps and dumps also score highly. If both fighters go down, the one who lands on top is often considered to have won the point for it- often though if both fighters go down and it was messy I won't give points to either fighter for it. There's a lot more to it than just that though.

 

[Tayski]

Most of your questions I will let people with more experience in kickboxing answer.
However those 2 below I can answer from experience in Knockdown tournaments (fighting + helping mates warm-up before their fights).

1. Fighters had to wear protective headgear and shin pads during fights

-> since your own shin pads significantly dampen impact of your leg kicks, should you try using kicks that utilize the heel more? (this is a kinda stupid question, but i had to ask lol). Should you use leg kicks more for point-scorers instead of damage

Even though you're wearing shin pads which means that your kicks with the shin will hurt less than without the shin pad, they would still hurt and if you're throwing leg kicks it just means you have to land more of them to have the same effect. Accumulation is the key.
Don't just think they will do nothing, it will just take more of them.
If you're targeting the head with shin pads on, you can still have the desired effect with just 1 kick if you land clean.

Kicks that utilize the heel are more difficult to land, but of course if they do land clean they usually do more damage than a kick with the shin that has a shin pad on.
Here I'm thinking especially of spinning hook kicks to the head, and spinning side kicks to the body (ribs, liver, solar plexus...)

3. Fighting 2 successive fights in one night

-> How do you prepare for your 2nd fight? (would like to hear personal experience), do you take a nap in-between, should you have a big meal.

It depends on fighters and their preferences. Most times people I know will relax after a fight for a bit, either by isolating themselves / laying down with music / chatting with team mates, etc. or simply watch the other fights going on. If you have bad bruises, you can apply some ice on them then.

Usually about half hour before their next fight they will warm up again, hit some pads, do some shadow boxing, a few stretches. Some fighters will do a longer warmup, some fighters a shorter warmup. Each person is different and their body doesn't need the same amount of warmup, also it depends on how much time has gone since their previous fight.

I never saw anyone have a big meal in between their fights. That sounds like a stupid thing to do as you won't have time to digest properly which means you won't feel 100% and getting hit to the body will not be pleasant
If you feel like eating something after your first fight maybe have a small snack like a banana or a cereal bar. Rehydrating is very important too.

 

[j123]

1. TKO from knee strikes happens more. Headkick KOs are next.
2. Haven't found a difference.
3. Depends on how much time is in between. Generally eating should stop around 2h before the next bout. I'd focus on re-hydrating (water, postassium, and sodium). Warm up drills are the same.

4. Normally if you both fall, its not counted. Throws and sweeps are the most in points I believe. Kicks are always scored, even if they're blocked, its still a point. Same in the clinch, if your opponent blocks with their forearms (I don't advise this), knees thrown are still scored.

3- Who the fuck fights twice in one night? Unless part of a 4- or 8-man tournament (which is a fairly high-level thing to do generally)

I'm in Ontario, prior to this year there wasn't much available for sanctioned amateur Muay Thai fights for us. Most of the time, we'd head down to America for fights, most of the time those were tournaments. It was pretty common for gyms in our area to compete in TBA (http://www.tbasanctioning.org/)

You'd be surprised at the experience level at tournaments, even though its "high-level", there are alot of competitors with no prior experience competing (0-0, no exhibition/smokers)

 

[Phlog]

Attended my first amateur kickboxing/muay thai event few months ago, and I was thinking there's a lot of rules that affect the strategy, also differences from sparring

1. Fighters had to wear protective headgear and shin pads during fights

-> Since the body is unprotected, would prioritizing body shots (over strikes to head/legs) be a more effective strategy?

-> From ppl that have watched more low-level amateur fights, would you say there are more ppl that get KO/TKO'd from body shots, or head strikes? (For the record, there were not many T/KOs at the event i attended, the 3 that got finished, were all females, by punches to head)

-> since your own shin pads significantly dampen impact of your leg kicks, should you try using kicks that utilize the heel more? (this is a kinda stupid question, but i had to ask lol). Should you use leg kicks more for point-scorers instead of damage

2. Fighting shirtless as opposed to clothed

-> Are there any major differences to shirtless fighting? I have only sparred with a shirt on. In regards to clinching, techniques slipping off sweaty opponent

3. Fighting 2 successive fights in one night

-> How do you prepare for your 2nd fight? (would like to hear personal experience), do you take a nap in-between, should you have a big meal.

4. Scoring

-> Are strikes to head counted more than strikes to leg? If you throw someone in clinch, but both fall to ground, is it scored for person that ends up on top or none because both fell?


Thanks to all who contribute to the discussion. Personal experience is much appreciated

Head gear and shin pads don't change tactics in the slightest.

Clinching is no different regardless of shirt or no.

For successive fights I try to stay warm. That's the main thing. If I cool down warming up for the second is a real pain, literally, due to the injuries I'll likely have.

Scoring, it's down to the scoring criteria and the judges background.

 

[roventu]

thanks for the informative responses already

@Kiwi: yeah it was a 4 man tourney for each weight division, you had to beat 2 ppl and then you'd get a shiny belt at the end it was only amateurs fighting though

Most of your questions I will let people with more experience in kickboxing answer.
However those 2 below I can answer from experience in Knockdown tournaments (fighting + helping mates warm-up before their fights).

Even though you're wearing shin pads which means that your kicks with the shin will hurt less than without the shin pad, they would still hurt and if you're throwing leg kicks it just means you have to land more of them to have the same effect. Accumulation is the key.
Don't just think they will do nothing, it will just take more of them.
If you're targeting the head with shin pads on, you can still have the desired effect with just 1 kick if you land clean.

Thanks. This may be a little funny, but you're allowed to bring your own shinpads: wouldn't you rather have thinner shinpads, so your kicks can be harder? checking would be more painful, but thatd be the only drawback i guess

These are the type of shinpads im talking about, which some of guys at my gym use: ( dont know if these slip-ons get shifted out of place more than velcro loops)

1. TKO from knee strikes happens more. Headkick KOs are next.

I'm in Ontario, prior to this year there wasn't much available for sanctioned amateur Muay Thai fights for us.

yeah i think ontario rules are stringent, the event i went to we had to go to Ajax (organization was called WKF Canada). there's a lot of decent gyms in GTA alone, so it's not like the talent isnt there.

cool to hear your experience on TKOs, are you including knee strikes to head?

 

[j123]

thanks for the informative responses already

@Kiwi: yeah it was a 4 man tourney for each weight division, you had to beat 2 ppl and then you'd get a shiny belt at the end it was only amateurs fighting though



Thanks. This may be a little funny, but you're allowed to bring your own shinpads: wouldn't you rather have thinner shinpads, so your kicks can be harder? checking would be more painful, but thatd be the only drawback i guess

These are the type of shinpads im talking about, which some of guys at my gym use: ( dont know if these slip-ons get shifted out of place more than velcro loops)

yeah i think ontario rules are stringent, the event i went to we had to go to Ajax (organization was called WKF Canada). there's a lot of decent gyms in GTA alone, so it's not like the talent isnt there.

cool to hear your experience on TKOs, are you including knee strikes to head?

The WKF Provincials back in early July?
Its good they opened a chapter here, no need to spend time flying or taking coach buses to go the US. Funny thing was last year in TBA, in a division, the finalists were from Toronto. Feels kind of ridiculous flying to Iowa just to fight a guy a couple of stations away.

I once saw a flying knee TKO to the head, so I didn't take that in mind. The majority I've seen are from the outside (non-clinch)

 

[roventu]

The WKF Provincials back in early July?
Its good they opened a chapter here, no need to spend time flying or taking coach buses to go the US. Funny thing was last year in TBA, in a division, the finalists were from Toronto. Feels kind of ridiculous flying to Iowa just to fight a guy a couple of stations away.

I once saw a flying knee TKO to the head, so I didn't take that in mind. The majority I've seen are from the outside (non-clinch)

yeah that was the event. lol thats pretty funny to hear about the finalists. kinda surprised to hear that non-clinch knees were the most common tko you've seen, we dont usually practice knees outside of clinch. will try that when i get back to sparring

 

[Tayski]

Thanks. This may be a little funny, but you're allowed to bring your own shinpads: wouldn't you rather have thinner shinpads, so your kicks can be harder? checking would be more painful, but thatd be the only drawback i guess

These are the type of shinpads im talking about, which some of guys at my gym use: ( dont know if these slip-ons get shifted out of place more than velcro loops)

It might be personnal preference but I prefer those types of shinpads (like the picture you posted, and the first picture below). I personnally find that they fit better, feel lighter, and move less out of place.

Those types below I personnally would avoid in competition if I can. They seem to bring a bit more protection when training and sparring, but I find them less comfortable for movement and kicks. I also find that they tend to move out of place a bit more. But it could be just me.

 

[j123]

It might be personnal preference but I prefer those types of shinpads (like the picture you posted, and the first picture below). I personnally find that they fit better, feel lighter, and move less out of place.

Those types below I personnally would avoid in competition if I can. They seem to bring a bit more protection when training and sparring, but I find them less comfortable for movement and kicks. I also find that they tend to move out of place a bit more. But it could be just me.

They're taped before the fight, so shifting doesn't happen as often in sparring. I do agree with you on the comfort part though.

 

[roventu]

It might be personnal preference but I prefer those types of shinpads (like the picture you posted, and the first picture below). I personnally find that they fit better, feel lighter, and move less out of place.

cool, good to know. they're still decent protection for sparring too? (I dont want to buy them for only competition use lol)

the 2nd type is taped like j123 said, but during the event I went to you could see some guys adjust their shinpad too (which is something i dont want to think about during a fight)

 

[Pope Leo VII]

The thin soccer-esque shin pads are for fighting. Gives you the ability to do as much damage as possible. Also...dont over tape these bad boys, you want them to slide around your shin, to allow you to maximize the hurting you can put on the opponent.

The bulky and big shin guards are for training and sparring. Protects both you and your partners.

 

[roventu]

The thin soccer-esque shin pads are for fighting. Gives you the ability to do as much damage as possible. Also...dont over tape these bad boys, you want them to slide around your shin, to allow you to maximize the hurting you can put on the opponent.

The bulky and big shin guards are for training and sparring. Protects both you and your partners.

lol good to know, these are the type of inside tips i enjoy reading heh

 

[Kiwi Tricker]

The thin soccer-esque shin pads are for fighting. Gives you the ability to do as much damage as possible. Also...dont over tape these bad boys, you want them to slide around your shin, to allow you to maximize the hurting you can put on the opponent.

The bulky and big shin guards are for training and sparring. Protects both you and your partners.

If the ref is doing their job, they're going to make sure that they're taped on right. If I have a fighter in the ring who hasn't taped their shinpads, I'm not starting the fight until they've been fixed. Start of a fight a ref should check your tape on your gloves, your groin guard, mouth guard, and tape on shin guards.

 

[Paradigm]

ive never been to an event (smoker or sanctioned amateur) where people fought more than once in a night. i mean, you couldn't even use elbows in amateur MT in California until a few years ago.

It might be personnal preference but I prefer those types of shinpads (like the picture you posted, and the first picture below). I personnally find that they fit better, feel lighter, and move less out of place.

Those types below I personnally would avoid in competition if I can. They seem to bring a bit more protection when training and sparring, but I find them less comfortable for movement and kicks. I also find that they tend to move out of place a bit more. But it could be just me.

hah! did only one smoker and i wore my Top Kings while the other guy worth shitty thin cloth shinguards.

needless to say, if i ever get around to doing another one, ill buy a pair of shitty cloth ones so that the opponent feels my shin as much as possible.

 

[Phlog]

needless to say, if i ever get around to doing another one, ill buy a pair of shitty cloth ones so that the opponent feels my shin as much as possible.

I have a pair for that purpose!

 

[j123]

ive never been to an event (smoker or sanctioned amateur) where people fought more than once in a night. i mean, you couldn't even use elbows in amateur MT in California until a few years ago.



hah! did only one smoker and i wore my Top Kings while the other guy worth shitty thin cloth shinguards.

needless to say, if i ever get around to doing another one, ill buy a pair of shitty cloth ones so that the opponent feels my shin as much as possible.

They're pretty cheap as well, usually half of the hook & loop one. I got mine for $30

 

[Paradigm]

I have a pair for that purpose!

They're pretty cheap as well, usually half of the hook & loop one. I got mine for $30

oh, i had a pair when I originally started MT. over time though...with sweat buildup (and accidentally leaving them in my bag over the weekend after sparring), they got REAL nasty. love my Top Kings in sparring because I feel like i dont have to really worry about hurting anyone.

 

[Tayski]

cool, good to know. they're still decent protection for sparring too? (I dont want to buy them for only competition use lol)

Different schools and different views on this subject. Personally I'm of the opinion that less padding = more conditioning for your shins.
The only reason I wear shin pads is because I'm asked to or to limit the damage on my sparring partners. If it were only up to me I wouldn't ever wear shin pads. That way you learn to be fast and precise with your kicks instead of carelessly throwing them. Also it prepares you if you're ever going to fight without shin pads.

So to answer your question, yes those types of shin pads offer decent protection. The real question is how much protection do you consider decent protection?

 

[AndyTran]

Different schools and different views on this subject. Personally I'm of the opinion that less padding = more conditioning for your shins.
The only reason I wear shin pads is because I'm asked to or to limit the damage on my sparring partners. If it were only up to me I wouldn't ever wear shin pads. That way you learn to be fast and precise with your kicks instead of carelessly throwing them. Also it prepares you if you're ever going to fight without shin pads.

So to answer your question, yes those types of shin pads offer decent protection. The real question is how much protection do you consider decent protection?

I think even pro Thai fighters they still use shin pads frequently. Most of the shin conditioning should be the result of rounds and rounds of bag/ pad work not sparring since a hard block/ kick shin on shin = game over for a at least a session or even days.