Question about skill: A heel hook guy.

[Dominic Kihlstrand]

I was just wondering what you guys thought of this. Lets say for example there was this guy, he doesnt exist seriously im just wondering what you all would think. But lets say there is this guy, who only really does one move. The tried and true heel hook. Its all he works on, and he is strong in keeping it and submitting with it. So lets say this, its his only move. The only move he can do is the heel hook. Now, when it comes to grappling, he is so defensive, he can rarely be submitted by the best of guys. He does not open up for one second at all unless he is looking for a heel hook. So lets just say there is this guy in Abu Dhabi, that cant be submitted, and submitts everyone with heel hooks. Do you guys consider him skillful? He doesnt get submitted, and keeps making guys give up with the his flawless heel hook. Do you guys call him a good grappler? Just wondering your thoughts.

 

[Dutch MMA fan]

Well he would be a good grappler if you can hang with Abu Dhabi - level grapplers without getting submitted. I think having a great defence on itself makes you a good grappler even if you don't have much finishing skills. To some extent Arona is an example of this kind of grappler.
Then if this imaginary grappler could also submit everyone by heelhook it would make him even better ofcourse, cause there are hardly any grapplers that are able to submit all there opponents (I hear the flames of the Rickson fans coming allready ).
He would not be the most exiting grappler as he shows no variety in his moves, but he would definitely be good to my opinion.

 

[guardpasser]

the imaginary grappler is......?

any way, i do a lot of defense and then go for leg submissions my self, i get lucky and beat some really good people and i get smasched a lot to, one dimensional is not always good.

 

[SmashiusClay]

I'd argue that if the guy was capable of submitting everybody by armbar (Fabiano Iha for example), nobody would even hesitate to call him skillfull, a lot of people seem to have a problem with leg locks and therefore might argue the point on this one. If the guy can avoid all the attacks of world class opponents and slap on a move that they know is coming, then yes he is very skilled.

 

[Half Boston Crab]

That would have to be one hell of a heel hook.

 

[loegdberg]

I would call him skillfull, but personally, I like the reversed heel hook better... easier to hold...

 

[IMP]

1) He doesnt get submitted at Abu Dhabi
2) He submits all other people at Abu Dhabi

....

clear case, skill 2k5

 

[knoxpk]

Absolutely very skilled especially at that level.

 

[Gsoares2***]

If he is submitting abu dhabi levels guys.. then thats his game and i guess it works.
Would i admire and want to be like him? NO

 

[b0b]

If he only does 1 move, and Abu Dhabi level guys can't stop it or submit him, then hell yes, he is skillful. Just because someone only focuses on one move, doesn't mean their all around game isn't good. Eddie Bravo, for example, uses half guard almost exclusively, but there is no way JJ Machado would give him a black belt if he didn't have skills in all aspects of the game.

 

[Flibb]

I saw such a guy at a submission grappling tournament. He just went for heelhooks straight without takedowns and got into the final where he fought the worst grappling match ever 100 minutes of nothing worthy to mention except 3 heelhook attemps by that guy.

 

[Inge T]

I'd say he's very skilled, sort of like those guys who just scores the goals in hockey - they might not be the best skaters or even the best shots, but damn it, they get the goals.

I would like to see him lose his fights, though, and I'd try to stay away from rolling with him.

 

[Aesopian]

What's funny to me is that I've talked to a heelhook guy, and he said that they aren't that skillful a submission and you can do them as a last resort when you are getting owned, which is why he likes them.

 

[physicaltherapy]

He's a boring skillful guy.

 

[Kawlinz]

I'd love to see shit like that... I love leg locks and heel hooks.

 

[triso]

Well in order to be competing at Abu Dhabi's level of grappling you would need to be skilled, so by default he has skills.

Was the point in this question to see who would say NO because of the "no heel hook" mentality that has been discussed here so much recently?

 

[Bolaojj]

If his defense is good enough to neutralize Abu Dhabi level grapplers than he is a good grappler, one dimmensional or not. The problem with a guy who only has one moves is that once he is figured out, everyone he competes against will know what to watch out for and train specifically to avoid it. You can get by with one move until guys catch on to you (while you are still an unknown grappler), but once people have seen you compete a few times everyone will have your number.

 

[ClubberLange]

Would i admire and want to be like him? NO

I'd like to be like anyone at an ADCC standard, however they play. I'd rather a different style. But I wouldn't complain if I was at that level, even if I was a L 'n' P guy.

 

[VanDamme]

I'd argue that if the guy was capable of submitting everybody by armbar (Fabiano Iha for example), nobody would even hesitate to call him skillfull, a lot of people seem to have a problem with leg locks and therefore might argue the point on this one. If the guy can avoid all the attacks of world class opponents and slap on a move that they know is coming, then yes he is very skilled.

The catch with an armbar is that is requires positioning first before you attempt the submission. A lot of footlocks can be thrown regardless of the position you're in. Theres nothing wrong with footlocks, but if thats all you've got, you're going to be in some trouble. I feel thats one of the reasons many pure no gi people hate the gi- you cant pass the guard of someone who's been training longer than you, but you can pounce on a foot and try a submission, and thats more fun for them.

 

[ClubberLange]

The catch with an armbar is that is requires positioning first before you attempt the submission.

I agree. Guards a really really hard posi to attain.