Question about skill: A heel hook guy.

  • Thread starter Dominic Kihlstrand
  • Start date
I'd call him Dean Lister. :)

Seriously though, if a guy has trained himself to the point he has great sub defense and awesome heel hook set ups no one can avoid, he probably does have a lot of skill and just has a penchant for one move in particular (see Marcelo Garcia's armdrag to RNC, Chris Brennan's Kimura, Schembri's Omoplata etc).
 
He wouldn't be a good grappler, unless he could grapple. Just "hanging on" wouldn't be grappling. Sakuraba is a good grappler.

He'd be skillful for sure. He doesn't get submitted by the best and he submits the best. But a good grappler? Since this is a theoretical question, I'm not told how he moves, how he grapples.

So in this case: Skilled? Yeah, in heel hooks obviously. Good grappler? No.
 
what's the difference between being skillful at grappling, and being a good grappler?
do you mean a well-rounded grappler?
 
Dominic Kihlstrand said:
I was just wondering what you guys thought of this. Lets say for example there was this guy, he doesnt exist seriously im just wondering what you all would think. But lets say there is this guy, who only really does one move. The tried and true heel hook. Its all he works on, and he is strong in keeping it and submitting with it. So lets say this, its his only move. The only move he can do is the heel hook. Now, when it comes to grappling, he is so defensive, he can rarely be submitted by the best of guys. He does not open up for one second at all unless he is looking for a heel hook. So lets just say there is this guy in Abu Dhabi, that cant be submitted, and submitts everyone with heel hooks. Do you guys consider him skillful? He doesnt get submitted, and keeps making guys give up with the his flawless heel hook. Do you guys call him a good grappler? Just wondering your thoughts.
No, he wouldn't be a good grappler. His opponents would lack skill.
 
id call him skilled. for my next MMA fight ive really been working on my leglocks, cause im alot taller than most of the people in my weight class and im getting really good with them
 
The scenario in itself is flawed, because that sort of strategy won't get you far in abu dhabi. It would be easy to lose on points while you wait for your heel hook.


Theoretically though, yes he is skilled. He wins matches.
 
He sure is skillful, but if I ever face him I know what I'm gonna work on defending...
 
I think of it like this. John Smith, a wrestler, had one move. The low single. He got everyone with it. Lets just say this guy is as good with heel hooks as John Smith was with the low single. Lets say someone was good enough to get the heel hook on everybody. No one could really defend it. And he was good at not being taken down, not having his guard passed, and not having points scored on him.

Skilled? Good? Whats crackin?
 
skilled sure, but don't take that theory and run with it. learn to pass the guard or quit. leglocks, especially heel hooks, are just icing on a very awesome cake.
 
kneecompression said:
skilled sure, but don't take that theory and run with it. learn to pass the guard or quit. leglocks, especially heel hooks, are just icing on a very awesome cake.

ohh hell no I would never do this!! Im just saying is this person a good grappler? Kinda like Mark Kerr, but does heel hooks. Cant really be submitted, but heel hooks guys.
 
He is skilled at the heel hook, but the heel hook isn't BJJ.
If all I can do is punch combinations, no matter how well, am I a great kick-boxer, no just a good boxer.
If I can turn left really well, but not use my signal, then I'm a good racer, but not a good driver.
 
I think he said grappler, not Jiu Jitsu master. To me, if you can hang with the top grapplers in the world of the same weight, no matter your game, you're pretty damn good.
If a boxer changed over to K1, and was awesome at defending knees and kicks, while KOing opponents left, right and centre, I'd call him a good kickboxer. Maybe not well-rounded, but certainly good
 
he if he is adcc level he would call him skilled.
are you talking about imanari?
he is the heel hook guy but still he was murdered by hansen and buscape
you can survive to everything if you only have heel hooks!
 
Dutch MMA fan said:
Well he would be a good grappler if you can hang with Abu Dhabi - level grapplers without getting submitted. I think having a great defence on itself makes you a good grappler even if you don't have much finishing skills. To some extent Arona is an example of this kind of grappler.
Then if this imaginary grappler could also submit everyone by heelhook it would make him even better ofcourse, cause there are hardly any grapplers that are able to submit all there opponents (I hear the flames of the Rickson fans coming allready :D ).
He would not be the most exiting grappler as he shows no variety in his moves, but he would definitely be good to my opinion.



imo arona could be a good finisher but he's too careful/cautious. it's way easier for him to play the boring defensive game and secure the win... putting more effort into finishing would leave him more at risk and he doesnt like that.


which sucks cuz it makes for boring fights but oh well.
 
Any good free online heelhook instructional clips out there??????????????????????
 
I think of it like this. John Smith, a wrestler, had one move. The low single. He got everyone with it. Lets just say this guy is as good with heel hooks as John Smith was with the low single. Lets say someone was good enough to get the heel hook on everybody. No one could really defend it. And he was good at not being taken down, not having his guard passed, and not having points scored on him.

Skilled? Good? Whats crackin?

John Smith ahd that one move but how many olympics did he win?
Plus obviously he had skill in other areas too.

But yeah , heel hook guy in this example WOULD be good.
 
The closest thing to this person would be Imanari. He lost to Buscape (pretty close fight) and Hansen, but he also moved up 15-20 lb.s to fight them, too...and he still almost subbed bother of them.
Is he skilled? Damn straight.
 
Dominic Kihlstrand said:
And he was good at not being taken down, not having his guard passed, and not having points scored on him.

Skilled? Good? Whats crackin?


Well that's a whole lot different from just being good at heel hooks.


Make up your mind man. If someone is good at a whole bunch of shit like that, of course they're a good grappler...
 
i just wanted to make sure this wasn't some kind of loaded question that might encourage somebody to run off and work nothing but heel hooks in order to get some kind of edge. but yeah, anybody that doesn't get submitted at abu dhabi is pretty dern good..look at some of the people that do get tapped there, they're pretty good too
 
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