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International Putin and Xi Jinping pledge new era of Sino-Russian 'no limits' relationship. Tell US to "Know your role, and stop meddling"

Racists are pretty obvious, they see Russia as a white country therefore a natural ally despite the fact that Russia and the West have nothing in common, unlike Russia and China.
Wasn’t racism from what I’ve read, just a foolish understanding of geopolitics. The people who advocated for that understood that we pitted China & the Soviets against each other in the Cold War and think we can just turn people against each other & do our bidding.

Maybe there was some alt-right version of this theory where the European people unite against the Asiatic horde but that is never what I read.
 
Wasn’t racism from what I’ve read, just a foolish understanding of geopolitics. The people who advocated for that understood that we pitted China & the Soviets against each other in the Cold War and think we can just turn people against each other & do our bidding.
The chinese and the soviets pitted against each other on their own.

The US just took over their rift and for most of these people USSR and China was just the same "commies".
 
It represents the CCP at its peak height falling short of surpassing America, sort of similar to the USSR. We don't want an outright collapse though, at least not yet. The economies are still too coupled and intertwined in a multitude of ways that they weren't with the Soviet Union.

USSR was a plague on mankind, China at least serves a purpose which is why dealing with them is way more complicated. Like we want the CCP to go away, but we also like Chinese capitalists who live over there.

People may hate on China but sure as fuck loves how cheap stuff has become thanks to China.
 
Cringe. Without somebody propping up the current world order where states have sovereignty, Eastern Europe would be gobbled up by Russians, Germans, and T*rks.

American dominance has a lot of drawbacks but it’s the freest and most prosperous world order.
jesus christ.
 
I’ve been listening to these idiots on this forum proclaiming the death of America for years now. The last two years have been vindicating and I’ve enjoyed it. They can hate all they want, America ain’t going nowhere

The long overdue modernization of our nuclear triad deterrent will put the exclamation point on it. A short back and forth with @LMP earlier (in the other Xi and Putin thread) got me thinking about how undesirable and unnecessary it is to have thousands of decreipt and dusty ass nuclear warheads laying around. I'd prefer a clean, organized, and streamlined approach that takes us to circa 2080, i.e., the rest of our lives.

In this case, that calls for 12 brand-new Columbia-Class nuclear submarines to replace the Ohio boomers, prowling the oceans with an armament of 16 SLBMs each; 400 LGM-35 Sentinels to replace the aging LGM-30 Minuteman III's housed in upgraded and hardened land-based silos; as well as 100 B-21 Raider strategic stealth bombers to replace the B-2 Spirit.
 
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The long overdue modernization of our nuclear triad deterrent will put the exclamation point on it. A short back and forth with @LMP earlier (in the other Xi and Putin thread) got me thinking about how undesirable and unnecessary it is to have thousands of decreipt and dusty ass nuclear warheads laying around. I'd prefer a clean, organized, and streamlined approach that takes us to circa 2080, i.e., the rest of our lives.

In this case, that calls for 12 brand-new Columbia-Class nuclear submarines to replace the Ohio boomers, prowling the oceans with an armament of 16 SLBMs each; 400 LGM-35 Sentinels to replace the aging LGM-30 Minuteman III's housed in upgraded and hardened land-based silos; as well as 100 B-21 Raider strategic stealth bombers to replace the B-2 Spirit.
Being able to intercept incoming strikes, and cripple those firing the missles is by far the biggest advantage we could have if another country decided to use the weapons. That is why it is important for the U.S. to continue to push the advancement of military technology.

They say it would only take around 400 nuclear strikes in order to kill the world. Imo this is the biggest reason Russia is so against NATO. It makes the Threat of Russia using nuclear weapons almost completely muted as almost all of their functioning nuclear weapons would be destroyed before leave Russian air space. It's believed that Russia has 11 or so nuclear capable submarines.

China is a much bigger threat already on the world stage compared to Russia. Even though they have fewer nuclear missles, the likely hood of them being able to deliver a strike is far greater. With China pushing for fast expansion of their submarine fleet over the next few decades.

With countries like Iran and North Korea, what makes them dangerous is they are much more likely to not bother to weigh the cost to the world and use their weapons regardless of the outcome. This is why securing our allies in the Asian pacific is extremely vital to our own national security in the US.
 
Being able to intercept incoming strikes, and cripple those firing the missles is by far the biggest advantage we could have if another country decided to use the weapons. That is why it is important for the U.S. to continue to push the advancement of military technology.

They say it would only take around 400 nuclear strikes in order to kill the world. Imo this is the biggest reason Russia is so against NATO. It makes the Threat of Russia using nuclear weapons almost completely muted as almost all of their functioning nuclear weapons would be destroyed before leave Russian air space. It's believed that Russia has 11 or so nuclear capable submarines.

China is a much bigger threat already on the world stage compared to Russia. Even though they have fewer nuclear missles, the likely hood of them being able to deliver a strike is far greater. With China pushing for fast expansion of their submarine fleet over the next few decades.

With countries like Iran and North Korea, what makes them dangerous is they are much more likely to not bother to weigh the cost to the world and use their weapons regardless of the outcome. This is why securing our allies in the Asian pacific is extremely vital to our own national security in the US.
I don't think at this point, there is anything any of these nations could do to stop mutually assured destruction.


 
Another dude that can't win an argument so makes up a new argument.

Its not a new argument, its basic history, times in history where one side is extremely dominant are the most peaceful rather than we have several powers competing with each other.

There was a saying that a woman could walk the entire silk route naked with gold over her head without fear due to Pax Mongolica
 
Because its has brought the most prosperous and most peaceful era of humanity.
American dominance has a lot of drawbacks but it’s the freest and most prosperous world order.

Ya think.

gbl.png


@Jack V Savage

[<diva3}
 
USSR was a plague on mankind, China at least serves a purpose which is why dealing with them is way more complicated. Like we want the CCP to go away, but we also like Chinese capitalists who live over there.

People may hate on China but sure as fuck loves how cheap stuff has become thanks to China.


Yeah But China also massively relies on the west especially for food imports. Certain foods simply don't work over there as they can't grow them properly. We are also their biggest customers in terms of buying their exports. If the west doesn't exist China is fucked.
 
Yeah But China also massively relies on the west especially for food imports. Certain foods simply don't work over there as they can't grow them properly. We are also their biggest customers in terms of buying their exports. If the west doesn't exist China is fucked.
Which is why its way more complicated than the USSR.

West and China depend on each other.
 
Which is why its way more complicated than the USSR.

West and China depend on each other.


Russia literally doesn't matter. They throw a nuke tomorrow we all throw a dozen and nobody bats an eyelid. Life moves on as best it can. China throws a nuke and the same happens but we all care.....hence China won't throw a nuke to start it.
 
Being able to intercept incoming strikes, and cripple those firing the missles is by far the biggest advantage we could have if another country decided to use the weapons. That is why it is important for the U.S. to continue to push the advancement of military technology.

They say it would only take around 400 nuclear strikes in order to kill the world. Imo this is the biggest reason Russia is so against NATO. It makes the Threat of Russia using nuclear weapons almost completely muted as almost all of their functioning nuclear weapons would be destroyed before leave Russian air space. It's believed that Russia has 11 or so nuclear capable submarines.

China is a much bigger threat already on the world stage compared to Russia. Even though they have fewer nuclear missles, the likely hood of them being able to deliver a strike is far greater. With China pushing for fast expansion of their submarine fleet over the next few decades.

With countries like Iran and North Korea, what makes them dangerous is they are much more likely to not bother to weigh the cost to the world and use their weapons regardless of the outcome. This is why securing our allies in the Asian pacific is extremely vital to our own national security in the US.

Correct on missile defence. However, the rest is, how to put this politely, completely mistaken. During the height of the cold war, there were over 400 nuclear devices targeted on Moscow and Leningrad alone, those two cities would be glowing quite nicely in the dark but the test of the world will be just fine. Even the entire cold war arsenal of around 70,000 nukes wouldn't be enough to kill the world or even humans, billions would die but it wouldn't be an extinction event for us.

As for Russia, the reason they're against NATO is because of missile transit times to Moscow & St. Petersburg. With the old Warsaw Pact boundaries they had around 20-30 minutes to deal with a NATO missile strike on either city which gives enough decision making time to either respond with a tactical nuclear strike or a full out strategic strike if that's what needed. Moving the borders all the way up to Russia proper reduces that response time to only 5-10 minutes at best, which means any missile launch towards Russia must be assumed to be a decapitation strike, which means the automatic response is a full out launch of all strategic nuclear devices. This is not a safe & stable situation to say the least, it's why the US threw a fit when the Soviets placed missiles in Cuba and why Russia strongly objects to the eastward movement of NATO's borders.

In terms of capabilities, no, we cannot knock Russian missiles out of the air over their own land. That is fantasy shit. The Soviets were not stupid, like the US, they put most of their missile silos in the middle of the country where they can't be hit before they're launched. They're not going to let us park 50 Aegis missile ships off their northern coast either so we're not going to be doing any boost phase interceptions. We also don't know where a bunch of their missiles are since they have also have mobile launchers in addition to silos.

As for China, they're not even a threat. China is uniquely vulnerable to nuclear strikes and they know it, their population is far more concentrated around key areas than either the US or Russia, plus their agriculture and transportation networks can taken out with relative ease compared to the big 2 nuclear powers. This is why they're so touchy & aggressive when it comes to asserting their presence in their local seas, they know that it only takes a couple nuclear subs in the wrong places to cripple them for decades, if not permanently. They're not going to launch a first strike since they know they'll be annihilated in response, and there's nothing they can do about that for the foreseeable future.

Finally, Iran & North Korea. This is not the Iran of the cold war era. I don't know if you saw the Iranian missile strike on Israel, but that was one of the best demonstration strikes I've seen in my lifetime. It was carefully calculated to destroy key targets with minimum collateral damage, and everything they wanted to hit was destroyed despite everything the US and Israel did. It satisfied the calls for action in the Muslim world, proved that Iran could hit whatever it wanted to, did so with minimum collateral damage & loss of life, and it gave the diplomats on both sides an off-ramp to de-escalate the situation. IMO we don't need to worry about Iran, they know the rules of the game and they're not going to do anything stupid or reckless. North Korea is harder to read, but I don't think they're as crazy as most people believe.
 
As for Russia, the reason they're against NATO is because of missile transit times to Moscow & St. Petersburg. With the old Warsaw Pact boundaries they had around 20-30 minutes to deal with a NATO missile strike on either city which gives enough decision making time to either respond with a tactical nuclear strike or a full out strategic strike if that's what needed.

This would make sense if NATO had put nukes in former Warsaw countries which it has never done as to not to provoke Russia.

Also where do you get the 20-30 minutes timeframe? an ICBM takes that time if it was launched from the US, but in reality a decapitation strike would be done with nuclear submarines parked close to Moscow in the Baltics or the Black sea.

The only reason Russia is against NATO is because it prevents Russia from invading or bullying small countries that can't defend themselves.
 
This would make sense if NATO had put nukes in former Warsaw countries which it has never done as to not to provoke Russia.

Also where do you get the 20-30 minutes timeframe? an ICBM takes that time if it was launched from the US, but in reality a decapitation strike would be done with nuclear submarines parked close to Moscow in the Baltics or the Black sea.

First, we need to distinguish between tactical and strategic nuclear devices. All ICBMs and SLBMs are strategic nuclear missiles, if any of them are launched by either side it automatically results in a full launch of ALL nuclear devices by ALL nuclear powers. There is no such thing as a limited strike when strategic nuclear devices are involved, if one flies they all fly. All the major nuclear powers know this which is why none of them will attempt a decapitation strike with subs parked off the coast, this is a myth from the earlier days of the Cold War when response times were much slower and there was actually a decent chance we could whack the leadership before they got their own missiles in the air.

What the Russians were, and are concerned about is tactical or theatre level missiles such as Tomahawks and the old Pershing series missiles. According to doctrine they were meant for use against Soviet armies if they invaded Europe and threatened to overrun NATO forces, but they could easily be targeted on Moscow and St. Petersburg as well which is a serious problem for Soviet decision making. If one of those missiles is launched the Soviets would have maybe 20-30 minutes to figure out where it's going and how to respond, if it's aimed at something on the battlefield the Soviets will launch their own tactical nukes, if it's aimed at Moscow or St. Pete's then things get messy and there's a good chance they'll launch all their strategic nukes in response. By cutting the reaction time down to 5-10 minutes, the Russians no longer have enough time to figure out a proper response which greatly increases the risk of an all out launch of all nuclear devices.
 
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