Problems Holding Top Position

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by SuperCubsFan, Oct 7, 2005.

  1. SuperCubsFan

    SuperCubsFan Purple Belt

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    Hi,
    I have had alot of problems controling my opponets from top position as I feel they can do to me. Is this possibly just a problem of size, or could I just be doing something fundamentally wrong? I am a small guy. I weigh around 136 and usually have this problem with much larger guys. Does it make sense to have problems like this with larger opponets or is it likely I am doing something wrong.

    Thanks
     
  2. Sherdog_Mutt

    Sherdog_Mutt Purple Belt

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    It's easier for a bigger guy to buck off a smaller guy. However, there are ways that a small guy can maintain top position on a big guy. Are you talking about the mount, side control, north/south, knee on belly? If you clarify what position you're having problems with... you can get specific suggestions.
     
  3. Foolkiller

    Foolkiller You have meddled with the primal forces of nature!

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    Use your head for base, not just your hands. Lift some weights and eat more while you are at it, 136lbs is no weight for a 17-18 year old to be unless you are in a third world country and have no choice. I know girls that do kickboxing who weigh more than you.
     
  4. knoxpk

    knoxpk Black Belt

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    certainly it is harder for a smaller guy to hold down someone much bigger...pins(top position) come with practice...Its in the hips and use of leverage..also you cant just clmap dpwn a hold and try to hang on for dear life..there a re slight shifts that you make while the opponent squirms in order to keep control...practice practice practice................
     
  5. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot Yellow Card

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    One problem beginners have is they end up holding their own weight whether it be with their feet or knees and elbows. Whenever possible try to have the OTHER guy carrying as much weight as possible. However, one key to the top position is to stay mobile. If you think that grabbing and holding on as hard as you can is going to work from the top position you are going to be reversed a lot.

    If you have the mount, look into the double attack position or S mount. Think about jumping off to knee on belly or side control. Rotate around quickly and always try to take the back. These are the things that will make your top position much better.
     
  6. SuperCubsFan

    SuperCubsFan Purple Belt

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    LOL

    I am a short guy. Only 5 foot 6. And to the other poster it's mostly side control.
     
  7. guardpasser

    guardpasser Tudo Bem Bjj

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    keep your weight more balanced on the guy
    switch top positions as he transitions to the escapes
    go for subs to keep him concentrating on that instead of the escapes.
     
  8. alexgncw

    alexgncw Guest

    keep transitioning btw different top positions as they go for escapes i mean if a big guy can just bench press you off him when your in a mount its gonna be hard for you to stay there. also keep going for subs so they stay concentrated on defending those rather then throwing you off and offcourse lifting some weights won't hurt
     
  9. DirectDrive

    DirectDrive Black Belt

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    as others have said.... be ready t switch to different positions as they move.
    you could also try this. don't try to pin them down. you are too small so you can't just apply weight and keep them down. make sure you are hip to hip with them. if you are on their right side you should have your right side of your hip on theirs. your legs are spread out in ascissor for a good base. your right elbow is on the ground on the other side of their hip. as they shrimp make sure that your elbow stay on the ground and your hip is on their hip (off of the ground). you will move with them. as they bridge be sure to let you weight up a little. if you put all of your weight on their hips they can pop you up easily. meanwhile you can try to lift their arm, that is closest to your legs, off of the ground and slide a leg under his tricep. then switch your base to go to a traditional side contol, but you should now have their arm over their head and your side control will be more over thier chest and head. this is miserable for them and they can't buck you off now because you are so far from their hips.
     
  10. Kawlinz

    Kawlinz How do I change my Custom User Title?

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    I was about 135 in high school until around 18, and I was 6'3". I did weights and I ate a lot... I didn't take any protein shakes or anything tho... I wasn't aware of it at the time.

    Now I'm 190 lbs.. sometimes it just takes time :)
     
  11. afjiu-jitsuguy

    afjiu-jitsuguy White Belt

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    Just do a basic gi choke and then you will have no problem whether he rolls you or not.
     
  12. ichimonji

    ichimonji Blue Belt

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    I am only 158 if that makes you feel better. I also in my previous school have always been the smallest guy at the school. When people teach us techniques often times (for beggining teachers) they teach us from their perspective. I was lucky to have my first BJJ instructor be a small guy.

    Heres what I know. Mount is for points ... so if you are not in a toruney dont take it. IN torunament they always tell me that a pin is both sides of the hips on the ground and both shoudlers. I disagree. A pin is simply you controling the others movement. SO get out of the sport mentality and start thinking function.

    there are two basic types of pins (or throws) for that matter. control the hips or control the head (now to think of it there are legs throws but I rarely use leg pins) When you are smaller than you uke you might not be able to spread your weight over their entire upper body. I will tend to focus all my weight and leverage over either their hips or their shoudlers depending what I am trying to accomplish.

    As you pass the guard you must first fight the legs .. the legs controling the hips so therefore as you pass the guard you must execute a hip type of control. we have at my school a movement which we call hip switch or hip heaisting (there are hundreads of ways to describe this) needless to say you need to focus on keeping the far hip down so his near leg can not reposition you into the guar. I like having my near leg flat on the ground and riding up underneath his hip bone if possible. Next start trying to use your far south arm between his legs as means to pins. and always keep your head tight and down.

    some people get cauliflower from striking. some get it from getting cross faced as they shoot or from escaping it from head locks. I get it from holding a tight side control. you head is the advantage you have when pinning. they have 2 arms so do you ... the have 2 legs so do you ... you have a head to leverage on ... they dont unless they are trying to umpa.

    so back to the pass ... once you establish that you have passed there legs ... they will start going into a arms guard or turn into a turtle. this is when you have to act swiftly. you need to transition up there body frame .. (which may be alot longer than ours) so that you can now control the shoudlers. I like to pinch there head forcing them turn away from me which my shoulder and bicep. all of your weight .... and then some. and head must be so tight down with you hips as low as you can go.

    It is always easy to throw a reversal with the arms on a lgither guy than a huge guy. so it is essential for us to keep our hips low and mobile. a stronger uke will always get his elbow under our hips (and thereby easily toss us off him) so it is essentail that everythime that elbow gets under you hip you hip switch drasticly and remove it. and also try to get the far side underhook so you can work submissions and positions.

    as a small guy I adovcate knee on the belly over mount everytime. Mount and knee on the belly are simply transitional pins as means to execute a submission. by far our best pin will be a scarf hold (judo, head and arm whatever) or a modified north south (69, top hold) when met with supperior resistance dont fight their strnegth jsut cause you are on top ... the style we do is Jujitsu which translates and yielding gentle art. so when they struggle with strength you need to move. always move as you pin. and keep your head down. always keep switching you hips, always keep transiotioning. .... side control .. north south .. side control and just keep moving as you look and work for submissions.

    and lastly I would mention out of north south position dont get to thinking that is a shoulder pin. and good long guy will get his hooks in ... a supperior north south pin will control hips. with a GI I usually use the belt. I keep my head right on his navel. and always keep driving and pressing to the feet. it will almost look like we are mounting backwards becasue if his size is longer and larger ... we are unable to control his hips without almost mounting to get to that position.


    I know its a long post. I hopw some of it my help. dont think being small as a disadvantage. think of it as means to do techniques that big and long people will never be able to perfect. learn techniques ideal for your body type and look to the starts of BJJ who are small and who defeat larger people. Take a good look at Garcia. his motions can teach so much. ... oh ... and always keep your head down
     
  13. Moving Shadow

    Moving Shadow You are entering my dark place

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    some of the smallest guys can feel really heavy if they know what they're doing. the key is to relax and let your weight onto your opponents body and not on your knees and hands. just use them for balance.

    another bit of advice a bluebelt gave me was move your body instead of theirs.
    so if you mount them and they buck/turn to their side, lift up your knee on the side their turning to and get a hook in to take their back.
    if you're in side control and they're pushing you off and keeping you low and away from their head - spring up to knee on belly and work from there. you'll feel like the heaviest 136lbs ever if you put all your weight thru their chest.
    if you've got them north-south and they buck to one side, step over/trap an arm and go for a kimura/armbar.
    i'm a big guy and this is what smaller better guys do to control me.

    like what everone said, keep moving and adjust to what they do, don't try and fight their movement coz you'll always lose at your size/weight
     
  14. jiujitsujayhawk

    jiujitsujayhawk Yellow Belt

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    I feel like working out listening to him make fun of you.
     
  15. VampireMonk

    VampireMonk Black Belt

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    you gotta practice just holding.
    And also predicting where they are trying to roll you off to.

    teh next thing is to not give them space,
    use your weight distribution well so that you feel heaver to them.
     
  16. knoxpk

    knoxpk Black Belt

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  17. RizRan

    RizRan Guest

    Widen your base and let your weight on him. Adjust when he moves to ur base
     
  18. ARIS

    ARIS Brown Belt

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    It's normal for biger people to use strenght to roll you over, but still the more you roll the easyer will get.
     
  19. Um, as for holding the guy down, why would you want to do that? All you do when you hold a guy down is make yourself tired, and concentrated on not moving, while thats all that he's worried about, escaping. Try this just once for me, and see if you like it. Get in side control. When he tries to roll you, release him and try to go for north/south. When he tries to move from there, go to knee on belly, when he moves try to take side control on the other side. So on and so forth, take the easiest position you can get. As a smaller guy, it will be much harder for you to hold a guy down. So, try to move around more, and look for submissions, or try to take the back while you are moving.
     
  20. deadcrow27

    deadcrow27 Yellow Belt

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    Im 5'4 and weigh 132. I usually roll with a friend thats 166(no gi) I find it easier to stay on mount if I sit on his stomach or chest in a squat like form. Knees low though(about 5 inches from the ground). If he reaches under your leg let him but roll on to that knee to set up a triangle.
     

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