Pro-wrestling shoots? Works turned shoot, shoots in a worked federation, etc.

[axhand1e]

wow, every once in awhile I come in here just to remind myself how little I know about pro wrestling

Great stuff guys

 

[Falcondice]

RE: Takada/Vader, didn't Takada break Vader's arm with a jujigatame? And wasn't it unintentional? I don't know for sure, but I've heard it wasn't done on purpose. Then again I don't know much about Vader's relationship with Takada and UWF.

 

[etteilla12]

Maeda is a great fighter but the way he shoots his mouth off im surprised he hasnt met the same fate as Rikidozan.

I mean yeah i know he can beat most anyone but the way he carries himself youd think he was bulletproof.

 

[DannyBoy1985]

I've watched basically every shoot interview released from 2000-2007. Anyone who's seen my posts here knows I've written numerous summaries of shoot interviews in the past. I've seen the Nasty Boys shoot and they're tough, no doubt but they also bullshit quite a bit. I don't buy Sags story of him singlehandly beating Shamrock until he was unconscious and ended up in the hospital and then meeting up with Shamrock 9 years later and not wanting any part of Shamrock. If that was the case, Sags would've been like "I've already kicked your ass in the past, no need for me to do it again" or "If you want your ass kicked again, wait to we get somewhere where there aren't any FBI agents around". Billy Gunn said all the Nasty's did was tell Shamrock that if Shamrock wanted to do something about it, fight them, then go ahead but the feds are everywhere so Shamrock will have to deal with the feds later.

Alright, i got ya, but the way you had put it, it sounded totally one sided towards Shamrock, like you had only heard his side of it. Again, the complete truth is probably somewhere in the middle of the 2 stories.

Still, Sags doesn't seem to have a problem with Shamrock and he said himself he wished the whole thing had never happened. So when they ended up meeting in the airport years later, with Sags feeling that way about it, why would he have started talking trash to Shamrock like you think he should've if he really did beat Shamrock? Shamrock was the one with the problem it seems, not Sags, so Sags told Shamrock to fight him if wanted, but warned him about the FBI and all, probably because a fight there in public at the airport is gonna get them both in a lot of unneeded and unnecessary trouble, like an arrest. Sags feeling the way he does, obviously wasn't gonna be the one to pursue the fight, only fight if Shamrock made the first move, which he didn't. You know...

 

[DannyBoy1985]

Yeah, I would certainly believe Shamrock's side of the story more so than the Nast Boys'.

I mean, the idea that Sags took Shamrock out is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

LOL, Why? You gotta remember, that was a few years before he got his catch/shoot wrestling training and all, so he wasn't Ken Shamrock the shootfighter/mixed martial artist. At that point, he probably wasn't much (if any) different in the whole type of fighting respect than Sags, and that was being a tough guy brawler. And he had competed in some tough man competitions. Still, it's not exactly like Ken had any kind of big advantage over Sags or anything, and add to that that he was also the smaller man.

Plus, in real fights/brawls like that, things can be real unpredictable, chaotic & happen fast, and it can come down to things like who attacked first and such. Which Sags did, and a good clean hit from someone as big as Sags could likely hurt a person to where they can't really recover fast enough to ever get into the fight before it's all over. Not-to-mention, Ken went into it all pissed off and half-cocked, which probably didn't help since he likely wasn't thinking straight.

So Shamrock starts beating on the door, Sags opens it, Ken pushes past Sags to blast Knobbs on the bed, Sags has the jump on him and yanks him off of Knobbs, attacks first and beats on Ken till he's out. Add all of the fore-mentioned variables into that, and it's really pretty easy to believe that Sags beat Shamrock in the fight. Back then anyways. I'd find it pretty hard to believe of Sags beating Shamrock in a fight if they fought presently.

 

[Mike Mesey]

Who won the Flair/Orton brawl anyone know?I was on plane and missed it.

 

[Saku4me]

maeda really wasnt a dick, but if you fucked up, you were asking for it, he demands results

No, Maeda was an ass. He tapped out due to an armbar to Renzo Gracie. He got caught with an armbar, either it pops/breaks or you live to fight another day. Sakata chose to tap and live to fight another day and Maeda kicks his ass for it. Maeda is an ass and his history proves it. There's no two ways around it. Maeda is as much an ass as he was a real pro wrestling tough guy. I don't doubt his fighting abilities (compared to his PW contemporaries) but to doubt that he was a asshole for kicking Sakata's ass for tapping is irrational.

Big Burly, I have a ton of Harley Race stories but I'll be busy for a while as posting these stories take a while. Check back on Tuesday or Wednesday. Guaranteed Harley Race stories. One of my favorites stories was told by BB about Foley's head getting busted open in Maryland and Harley "convincing" the doctor that he was busted in the ring even though the doctor clearly saw, with his own two eyes, that Foley had busted it open on the floor.

 

[Kforcer]

LOL, Why? You gotta remember, that was a few years before he got his catch/shoot wrestling training and all, so he wasn't Ken Shamrock the shootfighter/mixed martial artist. At that point, he probably wasn't much (if any) different in the whole type of fighting respect than Sags, and that was being a tough guy brawler. And he had competed in some tough man competitions. Still, it's not exactly like Ken had any kind of big advantage over Sags or anything, and add to that that he was also the smaller man.

Based on his relationship with Dean Malenko and his use of rolling kimura's and such in his matches though, I'd have to say Vince Torreli was learning from somebody. Hard to say who, because he claims Buzz Sawyer--who was a legit submissions guy if nothing else--never taught him a thing. And at that point, he was already a stand-out amateur wrestler in high school, football player and Toughman winner and also, again apparently, bad enough to take on guys like Buzz Sawyer and get his better.

 

[Kforcer]

Maeda is a great fighter but the way he shoots his mouth off im surprised he hasnt met the same fate as Rikidozan.

I mean yeah i know he can beat most anyone but the way he carries himself youd think he was bulletproof.

Even Maeda had nothing but respectful stuff to say about Fujiwara though. He always made sure to let him know he thought he was legit.

 

[MIKEMCCANN]

List of actual tough guys in pro wrestling 9in no real order)

Ed 'Strangler' Lewis
Lou Thesz
Haku
Rick Rude
Dynamite Kid
Ron Simmons
Harley Race
Rick and Scott Steiner
Kurt Angle
Ken Shamrock
Dan Severn
Tank Abbott
Kaz Fujita
Sakuraba
Bad News Allen
Dino Bravo

who else do we need stories about?

 

[Kforcer]

List of actual tough guys in pro wrestling 9in no real order)

Ed 'Strangler' Lewis
Lou Thesz
Haku
Rick Rude
Dynamite Kid
Ron Simmons
Harley Race
Rick and Scott Steiner
Kurt Angle
Ken Shamrock
Dan Severn
Tank Abbott
Kaz Fujita
Sakuraba
Bad News Allen
Dino Bravo

who else do we need stories about?

Bob Backlund, the Malenko's, Sho and Masa Funaki, YOSHIAKI FUJIWARA, Takahashi, Tamura, Sayama, Suzuki, Takahashi etc. etc.

I don't know. I think a list of tough guy wrestlers is too much to mention because well, most of them are tough. And all the shoot-style guys were tough, even the ones that weren't submission dynamos like Takada or Anjo. As far as tough guys in the bar brawler sense, Takahashi was known for beating people up who talked down Pancrase or claimed it wasn't legit.

Plenty of interesting stuff about Strangler Lewis. The LeBelle grip--the special grip LeBelle teaches his students--was developed because with Lewis was training LeBelle, LeBelle's hands were too small for the traditional wrestling grips.

Strangler Lewis' history of back-stabs, double-crosses and shoots are hilarious and incredibly tangled though.

Funniest part, IMO, was how Sandow, when Strangler Lewis was still trying to establish himself as a world-class player, would relentless spin accounts of matches that Lewis dogged, lost fair and square or walked out on into draws or even wins for Lewis...and then claim, based on his spin, that Lewis was therefore the world champion. Basically, no matter how many times Lewis lost, Sandow would find some sort of way to argue that he was the legit champion and thus entitled to a big money match with whomever they wanted at the time. Stetcher dealt with a lot of these shenanigans, enough that he eventually refused to work with Toots and Strangler.

Lewis shot on one of Toots Mondts' wrestlers, a former Olympian, who'd been given the world title and whom Lewis had been working a program with. Can't remember the fellows name, but it was part of the long Toots vs Sandow power struggle and Strangler shot on him out of the blue in the middle of their program and took him 2/3 falls.

What was funny though, was how the strap was taken from Strangler; in a bout where he was supposed to win one fall, lose another and then take the third and deciding fall, he lost the first fall according to script and was then DQ'd for no apparent reason!

 

[Big Burly]

Thanks so much Saku4me! I am waiting with baited breath...

The Ed Lewis stories are also great stuff. He was a legit tough guy and hooker who could crush pretty much anyone in his day.

 

[DannyBoy1985]

Based on his relationship with Dean Malenko and his use of rolling kimura's and such in his matches though, I'd have to say Vince Torreli was learning from somebody. Hard to say who, because he claims Buzz Sawyer--who was a legit submissions guy if nothing else--never taught him a thing. And at that point, he was already a stand-out amateur wrestler in high school, football player and Toughman winner and also, again apparently, bad enough to take on guys like Buzz Sawyer and get his better.

True, but at the same time, Sags (and Knobbs) was trained by Verne Gagne and Brad Rheingans. I'd imagine he learned something about grappling and shooting, being trained by those 2. How could you not? Training with Gagne was nothing close to a cake walk, lol. It's not like Sags was some green fighter or without any grappling knowledge himself. You know...

When fights/brawls just breakout like that, crap happens. Again, Shamrock's going into it all pissed and half-cocked, so he's emotional and probably not thinking straight, which can certainly hinder you in a fight. I don't know if once he got in the room and went after Knobbs if he thought Sags was just gonna stand there and watch or something. I don't think was thinking straight, Sags got the jump on him and got the in crucial first blow, and it was all downhill from there for Shamrock.

Just look at the whole situation and add in all the different variables, and it's completely believable that Sags beat Shamrock. That doesn't necessarily mean he's the better fighter or nothing, that's just how goes sometimes. Fights/brawls like that are just usually totally unpredictable, there's no time for anyone to prepare to prepare or nothing, so being on the fly like that and all, just about anything can happen. It certainly isn't ridiculous or nothing, though im sure you were probably just exaggerating when you said that.

 

[DannyBoy1985]

List of actual tough guys in pro wrestling 9in no real order)

Ed 'Strangler' Lewis
Lou Thesz
Haku
Rick Rude
Dynamite Kid
Ron Simmons
Harley Race
Rick and Scott Steiner
Kurt Angle
Ken Shamrock
Dan Severn
Tank Abbott
Kaz Fujita
Sakuraba
Bad News Allen
Dino Bravo

who else do we need stories about?

Well like Kforcer said, a list of tough guy wrestlers is too much to mention. So many notable guys you left off your list though. Kforcer added some, so i guess ill add some more too.

Stu Hart
Karl Gotch
Billy Robinson
Roland Bock
Danny Hodge
Wild Bull Curry
Bruno Sammartino
Adrian Street
Roddy Piper
Bruiser Brody
Mick Foley
Stan Hansen
The Sheik
Abdullah the Butcher
Carlos Colon
Jack Dempsey
Chris Adams
William Regal
Fit Finlay
The Nasty Boys
Corporal Kirchner
Rikidozan
Antonio Inoki
Tatsumi Fujinami
Satoru Sayama
Dick the Bruiser
The Crusher
Danny McShain
Pepper Gomez
Sabu
Taz

Just to name a few...

 

[Kforcer]

Thanks so much Saku4me! I am waiting with baited breath...

The Ed Lewis stories are also great stuff. He was a legit tough guy and hooker who could crush pretty much anyone in his day.

And if he couldn't crush them, Billy Sandow's gift of gab could spin the story so that it seemed like Ed Lewis crushed them and then some. Lewis was a total goofball, a true American original; there was a match with Stetcher where, upon getting tired, Lewis just plopped out of the ring and decided to lie there and recover/take a nap. Eventually, Stetcher figured Lewis should get DQ'd. And again, Lewis had Billy Sandow's managerial brilliance to pen descriptions of the match which totally justified Lewis and made Stetcher seem like he wasn't giving him a square deal.

In a way, Lewis was like a real-life version of the Honkey Tonk Man.

 

[punkmother]

rvd bitchslapped taz, and taz did nothing.

 

[MIKEMCCANN]

To clear up the Ken-Nasties thing, even back then before being trained by the Japanese, Ken was a noted tough guy.

The Nasty Boys would not have been able to beat him up. Ric Flair managed to get the better of both Nasties (although accounts of that scarp vary, as they all do).

 

[Blasphemer]

Somone said Backlund vs Maeda I think. What was the deal there and what happened?

 

[DannyBoy1985]

To clear up the Ken-Nasties thing, even back then before being trained by the Japanese, Ken was a noted tough guy.

The Nasty Boys would not have been able to beat him up. Ric Flair managed to get the better of both Nasties (although accounts of that scarp vary, as they all do).

And the Nasty Boys were noted tough guys too. The fact is, Shamrock did get beat up, how it happened varies depending on which side of the story you're listening to. I don't see how what you just said clears up anything. The only ones that can really clear up the story are Shamrock & the Nasty Boys, and each is sticking to their own side of the story. You know.

Same goes with the scuffle between Ric Flair and the Nasty Boys at the China Club, varying accounts of how it went down with Flair getting thrown out of the club at the end. Who knows... but whatever that deal was, it seems to have been forgotten by both parties or no bad blood or whatever, since Ric worked with the Nasty Boys when his sons took them on a few months ago.

 

[punkmother]

To clear up the Ken-Nasties thing, even back then before being trained by the Japanese, Ken was a noted tough guy.

The Nasty Boys would not have been able to beat him up. Ric Flair managed to get the better of both Nasties (although accounts of that scarp vary, as they all do).

the nasty boys did kick shamrock's ass. its a matter of was he jumped or did he just get his ass kicked. quit acting like you know fuck all about anything. go back to writing twilight fan fiction.