Pro-wrestling shoots? Works turned shoot, shoots in a worked federation, etc.

[Kforcer]

--there's Karl Gotch vs. Lou Thesz, where Gotch breaks Thesz's ribs countering the German suplex and Thesz then goes all out and taps him with a kimura (happened in Detroit, never seen the match, only heard and read about it)

--Sayama versus Maeda, where Maeda nails Sayama with a low blow and then walks out on the match

--Andre the Giant versus Akira Maeda

--Antonio Inoki versus the Great Antonio (pitiful bullying on Inoki's part IMO)

--Inoki versus Akrum Pelwan

--Fujiwara getting double-crossed by Don Nakaya Nelson

--Masahiko Kimura getting double-crossed by Rikidozan

--Steve Williams versus Steve Ray (this match was supposedly a shoot/double cross)

--Daniel Puder versus Kurt Angle

--Bret Hart getting screwed by Shawn Michaels and Vince McMahon obviously


Anything else that I'm missing?

In his autobiography, Hogan claims he shot on Riki Choshu and kicked his butt. Don't know if I believe it or not.

 

[Big Burly]

Great thread, kforcer!

I read Thesz's book, Hooker. I remember him talking about a match where his ribs got injured and he had to quickly submit his opponent and get the hell outta there. I don't recall him saying that was Karl Gotch who hurt his ribs.

That makes a cool story even cooler!

 

[punkmother]

brawl for all

 

[Kforcer]

Great thread, kforcer!

I read Thesz's book, Hooker. I remember him talking about a match where his ribs got injured and he had to quickly submit his opponent and get the hell outta there. I don't recall him saying that was Karl Gotch who hurt his ribs.

That makes a cool story even cooler!

It was indeed Gotch. I hate to circulate the story; obviously, Thesz was too classy to circulate it himself. His ribs were seriously messed up, too.

It is interesting because Jake Shannon tries to promote the theory that Lou Thesz was all for show, essentially...probably because of Thesz's connections with Tony Cecchine. By making Thesz seem less formidable, Cecchine becomes a less viable competitor to Shannon.

 

[armbarforhire]

Great thread, kforcer!

I read Thesz's book, Hooker. I remember him talking about a match where his ribs got injured and he had to quickly submit his opponent and get the hell outta there. I don't recall him saying that was Karl Gotch who hurt his ribs.

That makes a cool story even cooler!

Did he said if he submited Gotch for realor just rushed the ending of the match cause of the injury (rushing endings of matches cause injurys is pretty common in pro wrestling)

There is the match were Perry Saturn gets angry at a jobber fior botching moves and hits him (the jobber is the brother of the guy that filmed the documentary bigger, stronger, faster )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP085eYK4Nw

And also when William Regal refused to job quickly to Goldberg and got fired.

Regal said he was not shooting Goldber but just making him work for moves the old school way and just not posing there like they do now for the big signature moves. If you are expecting real punches you are not going to see them on this match,what you are going to see is the Goldber that was winning his matches in under 1 minute , being put in a variety of old school head, writs and armlocks and having to work to actually win a match.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh2dtPO3d4Q

 

[Kforcer]

As I understand it, Lou Thesz--after getting injured because of something Gotch did--basically assessed his situation as one in which he had to simply go all out for the submission or risk getting messed up. One person close to him said he didn't believe Gotch was trying to exactly hurt him, but rather to show off a little bit at Lou's expense(at least, that's what I took from it).

Here's a link to a conversation about it:

http://wrestlingclassics.com/cgi-bin/.ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=001327;p=

 

[D.R.H.]

There was one a few years back between Rick Steiner and someone. Forget who exactly.

 

[Falcondice]

I think there's a couple involving Rick Steiner. Although nothing springs to mind specifically, I've heard he showed up at a couple of indy shows and acting like a fucking dick; trying to powerbomb kids out of the ring to the floor and etc.

Also I almost can't remember it at all, but there's this one Sasuke match where he gets pissed with somebody and kicks the living shit out of them, then storms off. Pretty sure it was a shoot, but like I said, I can't remember the opponent or date. IIRC it was an NJ match though.

And Choshu is/was a very respectable wrestler afaik. Unless Hogan king hit sucker punched him from behind and ran away, there is no fucking way he would have got the better of Choshu in a shoot.

Oh and speaking of Choshu; the match where Maeda kicks Choshu in the face when Choshu is applying a sasorigatame, breaking Choshu's orbital bone.

 

[Kforcer]

Yeah, Hogan, in his autobiography, says he was booked to wrestle to a draw with Choshu, but that Fred Blassie told him to forget that and just beat Choshu up.

 

[Kforcer]

I remember hearing that some kid, who was a decorated amateur himself, actually took Steiner to school.

Some people think that Bob Backlund-Masakatsu Funaki turned into a shoot, essentially, or that they stopped cooperating and started going, but I think that's probably exaggerated considering the match ended with Funaki getting DQ'd for going off the top ropes with a drop-kick.

 

[armbarforhire]

And Choshu is/was a very respectable wrestler afaik. Unless Hogan king hit sucker punched him from behind and ran away, there is no fucking way he would have got the better of Choshu in a shoot.

As far as I know Choshu doesnt had the legit training other japanese guys had under Gotch (Inoki, Takada, Funaki, Lyger, Susuki) and Hogan is actually more trained than his WWF and WWC matches make him look and tougher than people gave him credit,not to mention a lot bigger so its seems possible.

 

[bringbakpridefc]

There is quite a few of akira maeda I see.And these are all on tape to see.bad news allen said that while he was training guys at the njpw dojo,all the others would pick on maeda and bully him and he was very insecure about his korean heritage until allen told him to start defending himself........I think he really took that advice to heart

There was one a few years back between Rick Steiner and someone. Forget who exactly.

I believe it was konnan when they were both on wcw although I don't have the actual footage.It may have been at a house show but I watched both their shoots and I am pretty sure it was brought up and both of them speaking about it

As far as I know Choshu doesnt had the legit training other japanese guys had under Gotch (Inoki, Takada, Funaki, Lyger, Susuki) and Hogan is actually more trained than his WWF and WWC matches make him look and tougher than people gave him credit,not to mention a lot bigger so its seems possible.

are you sure about Lyger? I know Gotch trained sayama.Hogan was trained by hiro matsuda who was trained by karl gotch and there is a noticable difference in the way hogan wrestled in japan compared to how he did in the states

 

[Kforcer]

Lyger and Funaki were best friends when they were coming up. Lyger is an NJPW dojo graduate, which basically means hardcore submission-wrestling training which will break many people. Check out the early matches he had with Funaki; Lyger is one submission savvy wrestler.

I don't know about training under Gotch, but Choshu was a decorated amateur wrestler and certainly trained in submission wrestling.

 

[Toasted]

--Antonio Inoki versus the Great Antonio (pitiful bullying on Inoki's part IMO)

meh, the great antonio started shooting first

 

[chknhawk]

Behind the scenes, you have Steiner/DDP, Jericho/Goldberg, and a host of others, but I don't know about many in ring shoots.

 

[punkmother]

yeah, rick steiner shot on konnan once because he fucked up some spots and had previously injured people he considered friends with his carelessness. he and scotty have also beat the shit out of a few jobbers and a japanese tag team (they were told the japanese wrestlers love to work very stiff). he did get worked over on the indy circuit by a no-name though, the footage used to be up on youtube.

 

[Toasted]

some guy knocked one of scott hall's teeth out in wcw once. can't remember who it was though

 

[mikebourkefan]

some guy knocked one of scott hall's teeth out in wcw once. can't remember who it was though

that was jerry sags

 

[mikebourkefan]

one of the tough enough seasons had hardcore holly beat the fuck out of a kid named matt

 

[TKDhasBin]

It was indeed Gotch. I hate to circulate the story; obviously, Thesz was too classy to circulate it himself. His ribs were seriously messed up, too.

It is interesting because Jake Shannon tries to promote the theory that Lou Thesz was all for show, essentially...probably because of Thesz's connections with Tony Cecchine. By making Thesz seem less formidable, Cecchine becomes a less viable competitor to Shannon.

The whole reason behind Thesz holding the belt on 6 different occasions and for many years.....was because he was such a good wrestler and could keep the double crosses and territorial grabs at bay. If a competitor from a rival organization tried to "Go home" with the strap....Lou was the right "police man" to break an ankle or a wrist.

The original wrestling double cross occurred in 1925 when Stan Zybyszco the great European Greco-Roman champ pinned Wayne Munn......over and over again. Munn who wrestled for Strangler Lewis's outfit, was a college football standout and not a real wrestler. Supposedly Zybyszco was hired by Joe Stetcher, Lewis's main rival, to "stretch" Munn and bring the strap to a different organization. Zybyszco did just that and pinned Munn over and over again until the confused referee had no choice but to slap the mat 3 times.

Ironically, Zybyszco may have been double crossed years prior in 1909 by Frank Gotch. Zybyszco and Gotch had wrestled the year before in what may have been a "shoot". Newspapers of the time report that although the bout was a draw, Zybyszco was beginning to overtake a gassed out Gotch. Gotch probably remembered the 1st bout when they walked to ring center for the rematch.....When Zybyszco extended his arm to shake hands....Gotch dropped low, hooked a leg and secured a pin in approximately 6-8 seconds.

Wrestling afficianados argue to this day about the two Gotch-Zybyszco bouts......were they "works" or "shoots" ?

One thing though is certain.....Gotch would never get back in the ring with Zybyszco for a 3rd bout.....despite a handful of lucrative offers.