PRO fighters fat free mass index(FFMI)

[AlanGregson]

20% bf at 5'10, 255lbs would put your FFMI at 29,2. No, I call bullshit on that one. Your bf is probably closer to 30% than it is to 20%. How do you know where you are at?

That dude is trying to convince himself he's not as fat as he is, 255lbs at 20% bf is like elite not natrual powerlifter level numbers

 

[William Huggins]

You try to get back to the point of being normally hydrated and you piss the rest out, if you're holding excess water you might have diabetes, you should get into contact with your doctor if that is so, also the ffmi scale takes water into account, the more muscle mass you have the more water your body holds, because muscle is mostly water, also one of the reasons muscular fighters can cut more weight, generally speaking ofc

FFMI gets less accurate the more body fat is involved and I'm talking about above 8%, how many fighters walk around at 8% <45>

Try reading a few forums on people trying to get accurate readings........

 

[AlanGregson]

FFMI gets less accurate the more body fat is involved and I'm talking about above 8%, how many fighters walk around at 8% <45>

Try reading a few forums on people trying to get accurate readings........

Why are you talking about walk around weight, all of my numbers are cage weight or ring weight, also all of these guys are close to 10%, ffmi does well with people that are lean, above 15% is where the water gets muddy

 

[DeathStroke]

20% bf at 5'10, 255lbs would put your FFMI at 29,2. No, I call bullshit on that one. Your bf is probably closer to 30% than it is to 20%. How do you know where you are at?

See edit to previous post.

The FFMI is just a shit metric. I'm not trying to talk myself up as some kind of bodybuilder. I like to lift weights, but eat like crap. FFMI is literally the BMI of the bodybuilding world. It ignores so much, that it's not useful. At all.

Edit: Maybe this will help,a bodyfat percentage above 25% is considered obese.

Let's assume you're right and I'm wrong. I'm 255 and 30%. That makes my FFMI over 25. Still in the likely not natty, or extremely genetically gifted category. And I'm fucking 5% fatter than the cutoff for obese...
See how dumb this is?

 

[Fraz]

Have you ever seen @Fraz and Arnold in the same place......?

Didn't think so.

It's me Arnold, put that cookie down and stop discussing my FFMI

 

[William Huggins]

Why are you talking about walk around weight, all of my numbers are cage weight or ring weight, also all of these guys are close to 10%, ffmi does well with people that are lean, above 15% is where the water gets muddy

Look I get you are not athletic or gifted genetically but please explain the point of your post TS, what are you trying to say???

 

[Intellidamus]

No, you again missed the point, you should go back and read it again, i said anything above 24 for a fighter would be very suspect because of the catabolic nature of mma training, bodybuilders and fighters dont train the same, not even close

Well damn, I shouldn’t have skimmed this scientific document and missed the damning numbers.
So GSP’s high range barely coming in over the parameters set forth by the Universities findings pretty much convicts him? I think I read something about genetics also, but again was skimming. Seeing as GSP seems to have shitty genetics he’s likely slamming everything according to these guys? Help me, I want to stay informed.

 

[Beherit]

Alright pal, mind sharing a pic of that 20%, mark hunt is 264lbs, he's somoan so his bone structure is huge, he's also about 30% bf

samoan are t rexes now ...

 

[AlanGregson]

Look I get you are not athletic or gifted genetically but please explain the point of your post TS, what are you trying to say???

I mean... Do i really have to share my body pic to shut you up? I was the fastest sprinter in my country, been training pretty much my whole

 

[Intellidamus]

Here ts, educate yourself. I also appreciate your efforts but a visual “Analysis” leaves a lot of questions.
http://gregnuckols.com/2016/12/11/ffmi/
“However, the subsequent interpretations of this study have been even worse. Anyone using this paper to argue that no drug-free lifter can attain an FFMI of 25 without drugs either doesn’t know how to critically appraise and interpret research, they’re purposefully misrepresenting it to make an invalid point, or they’re just parroting the idea from some other source without actually reading the paper in the first place.”

 

[AlanGregson]

Well damn, I shouldn’t have skimmed this scientific document and missed the damning numbers.
So GSP’s high range barely coming in over the parameters set forth by the Universities findings pretty much convicts him? I think I read something about genetics also, but again was skimming. Seeing as GSP seems to have shitty genetics he’s likely slamming everything according to these guys? Help me, I want to stay informed.

His genetics are above average, he's certainly not a tyrone woodley, it also doesnt help he fought and beat eveyrone in the pre usada era, fought guys like sean sherk, people dont realise just how difficult it is to build muscle while doing such a cardio intensive sport

 

[AlanGregson]

See edit to previous post.

The FFMI is just a shit metric. I'm not trying to talk myself up as some kind of bodybuilder. I like to lift weights, but eat like crap. FFMI is literally the BMI of the bodybuilding world. It ignores so much, that it's not useful. At all.

Edit: Maybe this will help,a bodyfat percentage above 25% is considered obese.

Let's assume you're right and I'm wrong. I'm 255 and 30%. That makes my FFMI over 25. Still in the likely not natty, or extremely genetically gifted category. And I'm fucking 5% fatter than the cutoff for obese...
See how dumb this is?

Once you get above 15% body fat, ffmi isnt all that great anymore, good thing is that the fighters above are all below 15%

 

[Ideanudge]

Stuck inside, got nothing better to do, so lets look at some numbere, FFMI is basically a formula that calculates how much muscle a person has compared to his height. It can be a bit flawed cuz it doesnt take bone structure into account, but unless you're built like a stocky neanderthal it's most likley not gonna be an issue. An FMMI over 25 would mean you are 95%+ likley not natrual, or you have top of the food chain genetics, over 26 and there's basically no chance you're natrual. In fighters these numbers would be even lower, anything above 24 would be very suspect, most of boxing or mma training is very catabolic, hitting the bag, pad work, sprints, road work, sparring... Most of the muscle you build from weight training would be getting burned off from all the cardio. A bodybuilder and a fighter do not have the same type of training, not even close.





Lets take a look at someone like Arnold Schwarzenegger, pro bodybuilder, mr.olympia, obvs not natty.

View attachment 753837
FFMI comes out at 28-28.5
A silly example but a good baseline.




One of the hardest hitters ever, Francis Ngannou.
View attachment 753855
6ft4, around 255lbs, doesnt cut weight, body fat not lower than 12%, not higher 15%, so lets give him the full benefit of the doubt and say 15%, FFMI comes out at 26.3, at 14% its 26.5, at 12% its 27.3



Next lets look at the boxing golden boy Anthony Joshua
View attachment 753861 In the first Ruiz fight, 6ft6, 247.8lbs, about 12-13% body fat, FFMI 24.8-25.3





Tyron Woodley
View attachment 753877
Height listed as 5ft9, prob closer to 5ft8, in cage weight is around 190lbs bf is about 10%, FFMI 25.5-26



Paulo Costa
View attachment 753887
6ft1, inside the cage 213lbs vs romero, bf 11-12%, FFMI 24.7-25.3



Yoel Romero
View attachment 753893
Height listed as 5ft11, in cage weight slightly above 200lbs, bf 9-10%, FFMI 25-25.5, also above 40 years old...




GSP
View attachment 753913
5ft10, cage weight 185-190lbs, bf 11%
FFMI 23.5-24.3




Mike Tyson
View attachment 753925
5ft10, weight was about 218lbs, bf 12%
FFMI 27.5, all this at 19-20 years old...

Eye testing bodyfat lmao

 

[AlanGregson]

Here ts, educate yourself. I also appreciate your efforts but a visual “Analysis” leaves a lot of questions.
http://gregnuckols.com/2016/12/11/ffmi/
“However, the subsequent interpretations of this study have been even worse. Anyone using this paper to argue that no drug-free lifter can attain an FFMI of 25 without drugs either doesn’t know how to critically appraise and interpret research, they’re purposefully misrepresenting it to make an invalid point, or they’re just parroting the idea from some other source without actually reading the paper in the first place.”

I said anything above 25 would be top of the food chain genetics, in the 5% in the world, the people listed there were the best in the world at that time, the article also only talks about lifters and gymnists, remind me how much cardio training these two groups of athlete's do. Just say, i have never trained mma in my life and i have never experianced just how much fat and muscle you burn off with it.

 

[AlanGregson]

Eye testing bodyfat lmao

You got a better way, cuz most other methods are usually more innacurate then someone who is good at recognizing body fat.

 

[Sano]

See edit to previous post.

The FFMI is just a shit metric. I'm not trying to talk myself up as some kind of bodybuilder. I like to lift weights, but eat like crap. FFMI is literally the BMI of the bodybuilding world. It ignores so much, that it's not useful. At all.

It's true that the heavier you get, the less accurate it is. Either way, by your example, being 5'10, 285lbs at 29% bf would also be insane.

Putting the validity of FMMI aside, you're not 20% bf at your weight and height.

 

[Intellidamus]

Ts’s thread was based off of a study which had a lot of flaws. Fortunately, people have found flaws in the ways in which the data was collected and how these “guidelines” were achieved. It’s an interesting article.
“We advertised in four gymnasiums in the Boston, Mass, area and in three gymnasiums in the Santa Monica, Calif, area to recruit subjects. We offered $60 for a confidential interview to any male aged 16 years or older who had lifted weights for at least 2 years.”

“This is our first red flag: If you’re designing to study to see what the limits of drug-free muscularity are, you’d want to make sure your subjects are actually at least near their own genetic ceilings. As it is, the only requirements were being at least 16 years old, and lifting weights for at least two years. I hope we can all agree that a) most gym-goers don’t train particularly effectively and b) most people aren’t closing in on their genetic limits after just 2 years of training.

Now, it’s likely that there were a few subjects who were actually pretty close to their muscular limits. “the nonusers included many dedicated bodybuilders. Several had competed successfully in ‘natural’ bodybuilding contests, two held world records in strength events, and many others were recognized by their associates as highly successful weightlifters”

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From:
http://gregnuckols.com/2016/12/11/ffmi/

 

[Ideanudge]

Like TS wisely said, these numbers are about natural bodybuilders, not about MMA fighters who have to do a lot of cardio specially if they are prepping for 25 minutes of action.

For that reason, MMA fighters should have less lbm potential than bodybuilders. That, or they cardio absolutely suck. This is one of the reasons why GSP is so suspect (elite cardio + high fat free mass = not natty)

Note that all the other guys simple can't employ an endurance / wrestling heavy gameplan, specially under USADA

Francis and Yoel fight their body type, and they thorough history looked their body type through several different continents. They employ very athletic yet paced strategies knowing full well they don't have the gas tank to bounce around doing a lot of output.

 

[Intellidamus]

I said anything above 25 would be top of the food chain genetics, in the 5% in the world, the people listed there were the best in the world at that time, the article also only talks about lifters and gymnists, remind me how much cardio training these two groups of athlete's do. Just say, i have never trained mma in my life and i have never experianced just how much fat and muscle you burn off with it.

Read the article, the study that started this whole idea of FFMI is flawed.

 

[AlanGregson]

Read the article, the study that started this whole idea of FFMI is flawed.

In practical use ffmi is actually very good, guys that are obvs juiced will be shown as obvs juiced in the ffmi, 25-26, you can argue if you just do hypertrophy or strength style training, but a natrual boxer or mma fighter at those numbers, fuck no