PRO fighters fat free mass index(FFMI)

[AlanGregson]

Stuck inside, got nothing better to do, so lets look at some numbere, FFMI is basically a formula that calculates how much muscle a person has compared to his height. It can be a bit flawed cuz it doesnt take bone structure into account, but unless you're built like a stocky neanderthal it's most likley not gonna be an issue. An FMMI over 25 would mean you are 95%+ likley not natrual, or you have top of the food chain genetics, over 26 and there's basically no chance you're natrual. In fighters these numbers would be even lower, anything above 24 would be very suspect, most of boxing or mma training is very catabolic, hitting the bag, pad work, sprints, road work, sparring... Most of the muscle you build from weight training would be getting burned off from all the cardio. A bodybuilder and a fighter do not have the same type of training, not even close.





Lets take a look at someone like Arnold Schwarzenegger, pro bodybuilder, mr.olympia, obvs not natty.


FFMI comes out at 28-28.5
A silly example but a good baseline.




One of the hardest hitters ever, Francis Ngannou.

6ft4, around 255lbs, doesnt cut weight, body fat not lower than 12%, not higher 15%, so lets give him the full benefit of the doubt and say 15%, FFMI comes out at 26.3, at 14% its 26.5, at 12% its 27.3



Next lets look at the boxing golden boy Anthony Joshua
In the first Ruiz fight, 6ft6, 247.8lbs, about 12-13% body fat, FFMI 24.8-25.3





Tyron Woodley

Height listed as 5ft9, prob closer to 5ft8, in cage weight is around 190lbs bf is about 10%, FFMI 25.5-26



Paulo Costa

6ft1, inside the cage 213lbs vs romero, bf 11-12%, FFMI 24.7-25.3



Yoel Romero

Height listed as 5ft11, in cage weight slightly above 200lbs, bf 9-10%, FFMI 25-25.5, also above 40 years old...




GSP

5ft10, cage weight 185-190lbs, bf 11%
FFMI 23.5-24.3




Mike Tyson

5ft10, weight was about 218lbs, bf 12%
FFMI 27.5, all this at 19-20 years old...

 

[SupG]

Costa is leaner than 11-12% in the cage. Looks closer to 8-9% IMO

 

[Kwic]

Costa is leaner than 11-12% in the cage. Looks closer to 8-9% IMO

Nah. Maybe 10 at best.

 

[DeathStroke]

Stuck inside, got nothing better to do, so lets look at some numbere, FFMI is basically a formula that calculates how much muscle a person has compared to his height. It can be a bit flawed cuz it doesnt take bone structure into account, but unless you're built like a stocky neanderthal it's most likley not gonna be an issue. An FMMI over 25 would mean you are 95%+ likley not natrual, or you have top of the food chain genetics, over 26 and there's basically no chance you're natrual. In fighters these numbers would be even lower, anything above 24 would be very suspect, most of boxing or mma training is very catabolic, hitting the bag, pad work, sprints, road work, sparring... Most of the muscle you build from weight training would be getting burned off from all the cardio. A bodybuilder and a fighter do not have the same type of training, not even close.





Lets take a look at someone like Arnold Schwarzenegger, pro bodybuilder, mr.olympia, obvs not natty.

View attachment 753837
FFMI comes out at 28-28.5
A silly example but a good baseline.




One of the hardest hitters ever, Francis Ngannou.
View attachment 753855
6ft4, around 255lbs, doesnt cut weight, body fat not lower than 12%, not higher 15%, so lets give him the full benefit of the doubt and say 15%, FFMI comes out at 26.3, at 14% its 26.5, at 12% its 27.3



Next lets look at the boxing golden boy Anthony Joshua
View attachment 753861 In the first Ruiz fight, 6ft6, 247.8lbs, about 12-13% body fat, FFMI 24.8-25.3





Tyron Woodley
View attachment 753877
Height listed as 5ft9, prob closer to 5ft8, in cage weight is around 190lbs bf is about 10%, FFMI 25.5-26



Paulo Costa
View attachment 753887
6ft1, inside the cage 213lbs vs romero, bf 11-12%, FFMI 24.7-25.3



Yoel Romero
View attachment 753893
Height listed as 5ft11, in cage weight slightly above 200lbs, bf 9-10%, FFMI 25-25.5, also above 40 years old...




GSP
View attachment 753913
5ft10, cage weight 185-190lbs, bf 11%
FFMI 23.5-24.3




Mike Tyson
View attachment 753925
5ft10, weight was about 218lbs, bf 12%
FFMI 27.5, all this at 19-20 years old...

The FFMI is notoriously shitty. It's especially unreliable for predicting steroid use as your body fat goes over 10% or so.

Example, I'm 5'10ish, 255 pounds and pretty fat (20% or so).

That puts my FFMI at over 28. I look absolutely nothing like arnold.

 

[tinker_190]

I have read about the methodology/development of FFMI but I am a bit suspect of it, especially this "eye test", because it doesn't seem to take into account water/sodium retention.

EDIT: in addition, I don't think it takes bone density into account. Bone density on a competitive martial artist is going to be substantially higher than that of even a bodybuilder, let alone an average joe baseline

 

[AlanGregson]

The FFMI is notoriously shitty. It's incredibly unreliable for predicting steroid use as your body fat goes over 10% or so.

Example, I'm 5'10ish, 255 pounds and pretty fat (20% or so).

That puts my FFMI at over 28. I look nothing like arnold.

You're body fat is higher than 20% pal, also all of these guys are quite close to that 10% mark

 

[DeathStroke]

You're body fat is higher than 20% pal, also all of these guys are quite close to that 10% mark

You have the IQ of a moldy potato. Please stop.

 

[AlanGregson]

You have the IQ of a moldy potato. Please stop.

Alright pal, mind sharing a pic of that 20%, mark hunt is 264lbs, he's somoan so his bone structure is huge, he's also about 30% bf

 

[BEER]

I'm glad this thread exists so I can ignore your responses in the other one

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Stuck inside, got nothing better to do, so lets look at some numbere, FFMI is basically a formula that calculates how much muscle a person has compared to his height. It can be a bit flawed cuz it doesnt take bone structure into account, but unless you're built like a stocky neanderthal it's most likley not gonna be an issue. An FMMI over 25 would mean you are 95%+ likley not natrual, or you have top of the food chain genetics, over 26 and there's basically no chance you're natrual. In fighters these numbers would be even lower, anything above 24 would be very suspect, most of boxing or mma training is very catabolic, hitting the bag, pad work, sprints, road work, sparring... Most of the muscle you build from weight training would be getting burned off from all the cardio. A bodybuilder and a fighter do not have the same type of training, not even close.





Lets take a look at someone like Arnold Schwarzenegger, pro bodybuilder, mr.olympia, obvs not natty.

View attachment 753837
FFMI comes out at 28-28.5
A silly example but a good baseline.




One of the hardest hitters ever, Francis Ngannou.
View attachment 753855
6ft4, around 255lbs, doesnt cut weight, body fat not lower than 12%, not higher 15%, so lets give him the full benefit of the doubt and say 15%, FFMI comes out at 26.3, at 14% its 26.5, at 12% its 27.3



Next lets look at the boxing golden boy Anthony Joshua
View attachment 753861 In the first Ruiz fight, 6ft6, 247.8lbs, about 12-13% body fat, FFMI 24.8-25.3





Tyron Woodley
View attachment 753877
Height listed as 5ft9, prob closer to 5ft8, in cage weight is around 190lbs bf is about 10%, FFMI 25.5-26



Paulo Costa
View attachment 753887
6ft1, inside the cage 213lbs vs romero, bf 11-12%, FFMI 24.7-25.3



Yoel Romero
View attachment 753893
Height listed as 5ft11, in cage weight slightly above 200lbs, bf 9-10%, FFMI 25-25.5, also above 40 years old...




GSP
View attachment 753913
5ft10, cage weight 185-190lbs, bf 11%
FFMI 23.5-24.3




Mike Tyson
View attachment 753925
5ft10, weight was about 218lbs, bf 12%
FFMI 27.5, all this at 19-20 years old...

 

[AlanGregson]

I have read about the methodology/development of FFMI but I am a bit suspect of it, especially this "eye test", because it doesn't seem to take into account water/sodium retention.

EDIT: in addition, I don't think it takes bone density into account. Bone density on a competitive martial artist is going to be substantially higher than that of even a bodybuilder, let alone an average joe baseline

Bone mass part is not true, weightlifting gives a boost in bone mass, bodybuilders and fighters in theory would have about the same bone mass

 

[AlanGregson]

I'm glad this thread exists so I can ignore your responses in the other one

What? You dont like the truth or numbers

 

[Shoguns Prodigy**]

The FFMI is notoriously shitty. It's especially unreliable for predicting steroid use as your body fat goes over 10% or so.

Example, I'm 5'10ish, 255 pounds and pretty fat (20% or so).

That puts my FFMI at over 28. I look absolutely nothing like arnold.

Most modest sherbro if I ever seen one. Ofc u ur no arny, u are much more prolific than Arnold could ever hope to imagine.

 

[Klaavical]

FFBMI falls apart with the BF estimate IMO unless the BF is measured exact it's all over the place.

 

[JustBleed69]

Nah. Maybe 10 at best.

No one is 1% bodyfat without dying and athlean X is a dork

 

[AlanGregson]

FFBMI falls apart with the BF estimate IMO unless the BF is measured exact it's all over the place.

There is no exact way of mesuring bf%, even dexa scans are notoriously innacurate, if you're experianced enough, you can do a better job with you eyes

 

[Fraz]

Can't even fathom being bored enough to do this even during a lockdown.

 

[Klaavical]

There is no exact way of mesuring bf%, even dexa scans are notoriously innacurate, if you're experianced enough, you can do a better job with you eyes

True

 

[AlanGregson]

Can't even fathom being bored enough to do this even during a lockdown.

Why? Are you any of the fighters above?

 

[20falarVerdades]

Like TS wisely said, these numbers are about natural bodybuilders, not about MMA fighters who have to do a lot of cardio specially if they are prepping for 25 minutes of action.

For that reason, MMA fighters should have less lbm potential than bodybuilders. That, or they cardio absolutely suck. This is one of the reasons why GSP is so suspect (elite cardio + high fat free mass = not natty)

Note that all the other guys simple can't employ an endurance / wrestling heavy gameplan, specially under USADA