Prime Lennox vs Prime Tyson

[4daLuLZ]

Lennox Lewis could've beaten any heavyweight in history, including Tyson
He wins 9 times out of 10

The guy who got ktfo by the great Hasim Rahman ? The first ballot Hall of Famer, Hasmin Rahman ?

9 out of 10 times plus Ali, Frazier and Foreman ?

 

[Streeter]

The guy who got ktfo by the great Hasim Rahman ? The first ballot Hall of Famer, Hasmin Rahman ?

9 out of 10 times plus Ali, Frazier and Foreman ?

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Joe Louis gets over looked somehow and he wasms imo better than Frazier n on par with Ali. Deserves mention in that group imo. Like Frazier he was smallish as well for a,Heavy.

Tyson was small too at least in regards to height compared to modern HWs

 

[Hog-train]

I
Hopkins is an extreme case because he was good till like 50. Tyson and Lennox Lewis were 36 and 37 fighting for a world title.

It's not necessarily the age but rather Tyson was out of the game for years and then proceeded to not really train that well and was only in it for the paycheck. It definitely wasn't his peak.

 

[mozfonky]

Joe Louis gets over looked somehow and he wasms imo better than Frazier n on par with Ali. Deserves mention in that group imo. Like Frazier he was smallish as well for a,Heavy.

Tyson was small too at least in regards to height compared to modern HWs

older fighters usually get boosted by the "historians" while the younger fans forget about them. Joe was arguably the greatest heavyweight ever. But I don't know how he'd cope with how the sport evolved, in his day, he typically stood in front of his man and picked and probed for his power punches, when he did fight guys with mobility, he had problems. Dealing with guys 10+ pounds heavier and a couple inches bigger with movement would be tough for him. Still, he was probably the best technical HW champ ever. Most heavyweights get sloppy in the technique department, not Joe.

 

[burningspear]

When you consider how Lennox lost, its easy to envisage prime Mike checking that chin. Mike beat him up in sparring as youngsters, obviously an early bloomer, champ at 20.

 

[mozfonky]

When you consider how Lennox lost, its easy to envisage prime Mike checking that chin. Mike beat him up in sparring as youngsters, obviously an early bloomer, champ at 20.

yup, that chin would always be suspect. Great fighter, great mentality, big, powerful, athletic. Downsides, I never liked his footwork and he did have quite a few unimpressive performances before he teamed up with steward, in other words, his early fame was a lot of hype outside of the huge Ruddock win. He did what Tyson couldn't do with a single punch, makes you think that maybe either Tyson softened Ruddock up or that Lewis was just that much bigger a puncher. There were guys Tyson didn't just completely kayo, inspite of what people say.

 

[Streeter]

older fighters usually get boosted by the "historians" while the younger fans forget about them. Joe was arguably the greatest heavyweight ever. But I don't know how he'd cope with how the sport evolved, in his day, he typically stood in front of his man and picked and probed for his power punches, when he did fight guys with mobility, he had problems. Dealing with guys 10+ pounds heavier and a couple inches bigger with movement would be tough for him. Still, he was probably the best technical HW champ ever. Most heavyweights get sloppy in the technique department, not Joe.

While I agree history looks more kind on the oldtime greats but Joe Louis was just great regardless though. His only bad fight in prime was underestimating Schmelling I think but he avenged that easily. You really think Usyk beats Joe Louis if Louis has 4 months to train like today rather than fighting as often as they did back then ? Only Ali , Foreman, Tyson, and Lewis Imo are on his level.

Honestly not a single HW ever beats Joe Louis 4 of 7 if Joe had time to train . I o he was better thsn Ali even

 

[mozfonky]

While I agree history looks more kind on the oldtime greats but Joe Louis was just great regardless though. His only bad fight in prime was underestimating Schmelling I think but he avenged that easily. You really think Usyk beats Joe Louis if Louis has 4 months to train like today rather than fighting as often as they did back then ? Only Ali , Foreman, Tyson, and Lewis Imo are on his level.

Honestly not a single HW ever beats Joe Louis 4 of 7 if Joe had time to train . I o he was better thsn Ali even

I don't know, I just don't know how he'd cope with how the sport changed, you're watching a different game when you watch Joe fight. Joe had fast hands but wasn't so fast with his feet. I don't think it would be the size alone that would cause him the most problems, it's the size plus the way fighters used the ring. I don't know if Joe was adaptable enough to handle all that. We know he could hit hard enough, we know he had skills for days but we don't know how he'd handle certain things that came along after he fought.

In other words, he was a much more complete fighter than Ali but he wouldn't beat the Ali of the 60's, Holmes, who used all of Ali's inventions would have been the same. These other guys? I don't know, He might either chew Tyson up or get overwhelmed by all that speed and aggression. It's hard to say. Lennox was smart and big and somewhat mobile, or at least more mobile than the giants Joe fought and that would be a problem and Lennox hit hard himself.

 

[tank666]

I would pick Mike but Lennox would have been arguably his most difficult opponent. But I guess if Lennox could get sparked by McCall and Rahman Mike def could. Otherwise maybe Tyson via tough decision.

 

[treelo]

yup, that chin would always be suspect. Great fighter, great mentality, big, powerful, athletic. Downsides, I never liked his footwork and he did have quite a few unimpressive performances before he teamed up with steward, in other words, his early fame was a lot of hype outside of the huge Ruddock win. He did what Tyson couldn't do with a single punch, makes you think that maybe either Tyson softened Ruddock up or that Lewis was just that much bigger a puncher. There were guys Tyson didn't just completely kayo, inspite of what people say.

i kind of think this sometimes, Tyson hit guys multiple times and didnt shut them down in one shot, people tend to overlook this and concentrate on some of his one shot wins, he certainly had power, but i dont think he was the monster people made him out to be, he just could hit someone multiple times before they could do anything about it. Some fighters obviously folded when hit once

 

[mozfonky]

i kind of think this sometimes, Tyson hit guys multiple times and didnt shut them down in one shot, people tend to overlook this and concentrate on some of his one shot wins, he certainly had power, but i dont think he was the monster people made him out to be, he just could hit someone multiple times before they could do anything about it. Some fighters obviously folded when hit once

Yup, there were guys who took lots of his punches and holyfield was taking the shots that had other guys just quitting. What made Mike dangerous was the intent, the speed and then the power. I dont quite put him up there with guys like shavers or foreman though, punch for punch.

 

[treelo]

Yup, there were guys who took lots of his punches and holyfield was taking the shots that had other guys just quitting. What made Mike dangerous was the intent, the speed and then the power. I dont quite put him up there with guys like shavers or foreman though, punch for punch.

he had the speed factor, he hit people when they clearly werent expecting to be hit, fantastic fighter but when he started to become a little flat footed he started to take more shots, his lateral movement slowed down a LOT and so did his footwork, he was amazing to watch when in full flow though

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

Still cannot see any version of Lennox beating late 80s Tyson best of 7. Maybe Lennox takes 2 imo . Mike was juat an wrecking machine small or not his power was insane , all planet chin, good movement etc.

his chin was solid but let's not pretend it was impenetrable. ruddock stung him, tillis did, and douglas did as well obviously.

i kind of think this sometimes, Tyson hit guys multiple times and didnt shut them down in one shot, people tend to overlook this and concentrate on some of his one shot wins, he certainly had power, but i dont think he was the monster people made him out to be, he just could hit someone multiple times before they could do anything about it. Some fighters obviously folded when hit once

tyson didn't really ever put guys out cold. marvis frazier is the only guy i can think of. holmes got dropped hard and was most of the way out. same for tillman and spinks, but they weren't unconscious. he had amazing speed and had marvelous power technique, but just not a naturally heavy-handed puncher.

 

[tank666]

he had the speed factor, he hit people when they clearly werent expecting to be hit, fantastic fighter but when he started to become a little flat footed he started to take more shots, his lateral movement slowed down a LOT and so did his footwork, he was amazing to watch when in full flow though

Gotta be one of the fastest HW champs ever.

 

[Streeter]

I don't know, I just don't know how he'd cope with how the sport changed, you're watching a different game when you watch Joe fight. Joe had fast hands but wasn't so fast with his feet. I don't think it would be the size alone that would cause him the most problems, it's the size plus the way fighters used the ring. I don't know if Joe was adaptable enough to handle all that. We know he could hit hard enough, we know he had skills for days but we don't know how he'd handle certain things that came along after he fought.

In other words, he was a much more complete fighter than Ali but he wouldn't beat the Ali of the 60's, Holmes, who used all of Ali's inventions would have been the same. These other guys? I don't know, He might either chew Tyson up or get overwhelmed by all that speed and aggression. It's hard to say. Lennox was smart and big and somewhat mobile, or at least more mobile than the giants Joe fought and that would be a problem and Lennox hit hard himself.

Give Joe Louis all the knowledge , training, medical, nutrition , equipment to work out of today and yeah. put those other fighters in the 30s and 40s they wouldn't be what they are without all the knowledge gained over time and advancements in Trainig. . What I have seen of Joe Louis I don't think any hw csn beat him if all things equal. There's not a fighter today that finishes the fight with a Prime JL . Louis didn't decision till he was old he knocked everyone out. Maybe Ali gives him best fight due to IQ being off charts and maybe Foreman due to pure strength but I think Louis wins more of those than he loses.

 

[burningspear]

his chin was solid but let's not pretend it was impenetrable. ruddock stung him, tillis did, and douglas did as well obviously.

tyson didn't really ever put guys out cold. marvis frazier is the only guy i can think of. holmes got dropped hard and was most of the way out. same for tillman and spinks, but they weren't unconscious. he had amazing speed and had marvelous power technique, but just not a naturally heavy-handed puncher.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

ya, Joe probably just too small but I still think he gets shorted because of the highlight reel losses he had. The man who fought Ali the first time was supernatural and he'd never fight like that again. People underestimate just how much that took out of him. Foreman did not fight that guy.

Stylistically Frazier was always going to be a tough match-up for Ali and Foreman was always going to be a nightmare match-up for Frazier according to conventional wisdom (Rock, Paper, Scissors). It's possible that Frazier was the same guy against Foreman only it didn't show due to the stylistic disadvantage that he faced.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

it's literally true lol he threw punches hard to compensate for lack of natural power

 

[mozfonky]

Stylistically Frazier was always going to be a tough match-up for Ali and Foreman was always going to be a nightmare match-up for Frazier according to conventional wisdom (Rock, Paper, Scissors). It's possible that Frazier was the same guy against Foreman only it didn't show due to the stylistic disadvantage that he faced.

No, he wasnt. He spent weeks in the hospital after Ali and there was a rumor he could die. He was not the same. Whether that would make a difference with George, I just wonder.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

No, he wasnt. He spent weeks in the hospital after Ali and there was a rumor he could die. He was not the same. Whether that would make a difference with George, I just wonder.

He spent weeks in the hospital after the first Ali fight? Let's reconstruct the timeline to avoid any confusion going forward.

Frazier beats Ali in 1971, takes a couple tune-ups, then loses to Foreman by stoppage in 1973. Takes a rebound fight against Bugner and then loses the Ali rematch in 1974. Beats Quarry & Ellis but loses the Ali trilogy in 1975. Immediately after he gets stopped again in the Foreman rematch in 1976.