Prime BJ Penn vs Khabib

[gono btw]

You obviously don't train. BJ is a top game bjj guy. There is where he excels at. It doesn't mean he can't work there. It is like RDA; RDA is a top guy as well. He doesn't take any damage off his back but he still prefers the top.

Dont be stupid. Your 1st claim was about him "ONLY doing well when he gets top position".

Edit this shit.

 

[Teddy Brukshot]

Johnson was on a one-fight win streak after a two loss skid.
He and RDA may have been ranked 9 or 10...

...if your rankings suck.

So I'll grant grace:
Khabib has exactly--and undeniably--only two top 5 wins in his entire resume, and even one of those is a questionable ranking.

He's still two losses away from being the footnote I described, and that's not even bringing up the Tibeau asterisk on his "undefeated" resume.

And without question, 2018 Khabib is nowhere near GOAT status. He's two or three more years at the top level, with 5 or 6 quality wins against top defenders. But I have a feeling money changes everything.

RDA was ranked at 5 you clown. OK which LW has 5 or 6 title defences? He has three top five wins. Conor McGregor (ranked 1), Edson Barboza (ranked 3) and RDA (ranked 5). Please stop you are embarrassing yourself with your lack of a coherent argument or facts.

 

[NoSmilez]

Dont be stupid. Your 1st claim was about him "ONLY doing well when he gets top position".

Edit this shit.

He isn't going to do well off his back against Khabib. BJ Penn's bottom game is based off sweeps and scrambles instead of submissions. He doesn't want to play guard for a long time and he plays a very conservative close guard when he cannot find sweep or try to take the back. If you excel in a particular position, you aren't going to gas out doing it. When is the last time you seen BJ Penn gas out when he is on top? When is the last time you seen someone gas out from playing guard? I will say it again, BJ Penn doesn't do well on the bottom. He is a strength based grappler who attacks from the top.

BJ's game is very very basic and it has been studied by everyone. Even that leg ride thing Khabib is known for right now was something BJ Penn used years. Khabib's top game is vastly different from Hughes. He does not stay in people's guard like Hughes.

 

[gono btw]

He isn't going to do well off his back against Khabib. BJ Penn's bottom game is based off sweeps and scrambles instead of submissions. He doesn't want to play guard for a long time and he plays a very conservative close guard when he cannot find sweep or try to take the back. If you excel in a particular position, you aren't going to gas out doing it. When is the last time you seen BJ Penn gas out when he is on top? When is the last time you seen someone gas out from playing guard? I will say it again, BJ Penn doesn't do well on the bottom. He is a strength based grappler who attacks from the top.

BJ's game is very very basic and it has been studied by everyone. Even that leg ride thing Khabib is known for right now was something BJ Penn used years. Khabib's top game is vastly different from Hughes. He does not stay in people's guard like Hughes.

Dude. no need for all this rant.

Was not talkin´ about the BJ vs Khabib match-up, was only pointin´ at your original statement about BJ ONLY doin´well from top position, which is false.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[machidafan99]

A motivated Penn goes three rounds but towel is thrown in

 

[Hotora86]

Until Khabib loses - he wins.

 

[NoSmilez]

Dude. no need for all this rant.

Was not talkin´ about the BJ vs Khabib match-up, was only pointin´ at your original statement about BJ ONLY doin´well from top position, which is false.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Just train a little and you will probably understand the game more. Winning a 10-9 round isn't doing well off their back.

 

[MescalineDreams]

Just train a little and you will probably understand the game more. Winning a 10-9 round isn't doing well off their back.

BJ was legit off his back. Without question.

He was always known for the insane flexibility / dexterity In his legs which lended Itself well to his gaurd play, high gaurd, sweeps, overall positional control, taking the back, etc.

He wasn't necessarily the biggest submission threat but his gaurd was tricky and not to be underestimated. To say he only does well when he gets the top position would be quite far from the truth. BJ was a threat pretty much everywhere.

During his peak flexibility days, his jiu jitsu was high level In every position.

 

[sudo uber alles]

RDA was ranked at 5 you clown. OK which LW has 5 or 6 title defences? He has three top five wins. Conor McGregor (ranked 1), Edson Barboza (ranked 3) and RDA (ranked 5). Please stop you are embarrassing yourself with your lack of a coherent argument or facts.

Sure he was. Wow. You've exposed me with your incredible genius.

Lightweight

1. Anthony Pettis (17-2)
Pettis needed five rounds and the remarkable “Showtime” kick to take the World Extreme Cagefighting belt from Benson Henderson in 2010, but he required far less time to earn his second victory over “Smooth” and become the lightweight king at UFC 164. The only thing that went wrong for Pettis, who submitted Henderson with a first-round armbar, was a knee injury he suffered while checking a kick. While the ailment was only diagnosed as a sprain, the Roufusport standout was forced to withdraw from a title defense against Josh Thomson when the knee did not heal as quickly as anticipated. Pettis will coach opposite Gilbert Melendez on Season 20 of “The Ultimate Fighter” before defending his title against “El Nino” later this year.

2. Benson Henderson (20-2)
In case anyone forgot, the former lightweight champion is a master of the high-wire act. Henderson proved it once again, taking a hotly contested -- and controversial -- split verdict over Josh Thomson in the UFC on Fox 10 headliner. “Smooth” is now 3-0 in UFC bouts that result in split decisions, with triumphs over Thomson, Gilbert Melendez and Frankie Edgar to his credit. Such efforts may not win him new fans, but he remains a fixture near the top of the weight class.

ADVERTISING
3. Gilbert Melendez (21-3)
One bout removed from a narrow and controversial loss to then-lightweight champion Benson Henderson, “El Nino” teamed with Diego Sanchez to produce one of 2013’s most memorable fights at UFC 166. Melendez recently flirted with a move to Bellator before re-signing with the UFC. He will coach opposite lightweight champion Anthony Pettis on Season 20 of “The Ultimate Fighter” before challenging “Showtime” for his title later this year.

4. T.J. Grant (21-5)
The 29-year-old Canadian has been unstoppable in the Octagon since dropping to 155 pounds in 2011, notching five straight wins, three of them finishes -- including a first-round blowout of Gray Maynard at UFC 160. A concussion knocked Grant from a proposed meeting with then-champion Benson Henderson at UFC 164, and a slower-than-expected recovery has further delayed his return to the Octagon. Grant has not been guaranteed a title shot when he comes back.

5. Eddie Alvarez (25-3)
At Bellator 106, Alvarez showed the world why the promotion fought so hard to retain his services by regaining the lightweight title he lost in November 2011 with a hard-fought split decision over Michael Chandler. The rubber match between the two lightweights is expected to take place May 17 on a Bellator pay-per-view card.

6. Michael Chandler (12-1)
Despite suffering the first loss of his professional career to Eddie Alvarez at Bellator 106, Chandler did little to hurt his stock. The rematch of one of 2011’s best fights lived up to the hype -- and then some. In the end, Alvarez edged Chandler in a back-and-forth, split decision triumph, setting up a trilogy at Bellator’s May 17 pay-per-view debut.

7. Josh Thomson (20-6, 1 NC)
Thomson was supposed to get a title shot. Instead, in the minds of many, he was robbed by the cageside judges in a UFC on Fox 10 meeting with ex-champ Benson Henderson. Shortly after his controversial split decision setback, “The Punk” began contemplating the end of a career that was marred by injury. Should Thomson decide to stick around, he figures to remain one of the sport’s top lightweights.

8. Nate Diaz (17-9)
Diaz once again demonstrated his ability to entertain by avenging a 2010 loss to Gray Maynard at “The Ultimate Fighter 18” Finale. The Cesar Gracie disciple rocked Maynard with a left and kept “The Bully” on his heels with a flurry of accurate punches to earn a stoppage 2:38 into round one.

9. Khabib Nurmagomedov (21-0)
With five consecutive Octagon triumphs under his belt, it is safe to say “The Eagle” has landed in the world’s largest mixed martial arts promotion. Following claims by UFC President Dana White that “nobody” in the division wanted to face Nurmagomedov, Rafael dos Anjos agreed to lock horns with the 25-year-old at UFC on Fox 11.

10. Rafael dos Anjos (20-6)
Dos Anjos has quietly reeled off five straight victories in the Octagon, including back-to-back triumphs over promotional mainstays Evan Dunham and Donald Cerrone in his last two outings. Up next is a UFC on Fox 11 showdown with surging sambo specialist Khabib Nurmagomedov.

Source: http://www.sherdog.com/news/rankings/6/Sherdogs-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-65249

Oh, wait.

SHUT THE FUCK UP, IDIOT.

 

[gono btw]

Just train a little and you will probably understand the game more. Winning a 10-9 round isn't doing well off their back.

You´re really an idiot...lmao

You were obviously proved wrong, but instead of ownin´ it, ya came back with the same rant.

Do us a favour: go watch the fight and understand why your original statement is moronic, this has nothing to do with the scoring of the round, this has to do with the technical sequence during that round, that smashes your original statement.

 

[dmwalking]

Marinovitch BJ chokes Khabib.

 

[Bob117]

BJ all day. Brutal beat down leading to a decision, Knockout, or submission. Khabib would have nothing for him.

 

[NoSmilez]

BJ was legit off his back. Without question.

He was always known for the insane flexibility / dexterity In his legs which lended Itself well to his gaurd play, high gaurd, sweeps, overall positional control, taking the back, etc.

He wasn't necessarily the biggest submission threat but his gaurd was tricky and not to be underestimated. To say he only does well when he gets the top position would be quite far from the truth. BJ was a threat pretty much everywhere.

During his peak flexibility days, his jiu jitsu was high level In every position.

He is a black belt. I am not saying he doesn't have a guard game but it's not his preference. His style of grappling is from Ralph Gracie. It is very basic closed guard and focus on top control then pass and mount. BJ does use a octopus guard to take the back from guard. You might hear Rogan jerk off about BJ's rubber guard during his matches but he just uses it to hold. BJ doesn't have a focus on half guard game since his thing is you can't pass my guard. Once you pass his guard(I am not saying it's super easy but it's been done in MMA), he is in trouble. It broke my heart to see GSP just slice through his guard again and again. You can watch his interviews and he doesn't know what 50/50 or berimbolo(disgusting) is.
The game changed a lot since BJ was considered innovative. I don't believe BJ is competitive at straight grappling anymore. The video you posted with Leo is awesome. That was a man who frustrated Kerr at ADCC but it's also the same guy who got strangled by Khabib with a move that he invented.

 

[MescalineDreams]

He is a black belt. I am not saying he doesn't have a guard game but it's not his preference. His style of grappling is from Ralph Gracie. It is very basic closed guard and focus on top control then pass and mount. BJ does use a octopus guard to take the back from guard. You might hear Rogan jerk off about BJ's rubber guard during his matches but he just uses it to hold. BJ doesn't have a focus on half guard game since his thing is you can't pass my guard. Once you pass his guard(I am not saying it's super easy but it's been done in MMA), he is in trouble. It broke my heart to see GSP just slice through his guard again and again. You can watch his interviews and he doesn't know what 50/50 or berimbolo(disgusting) is.
The game changed a lot since BJ was considered innovative. I don't believe BJ is competitive at straight grappling anymore. The video you posted with Leo is awesome. That was a man who frustrated Kerr at ADCC but it's also the same guy who got strangled by Khabib with a move that he invented.

Fair enough, I would agree with most of what you said here. I think It's just the way you said "he only has success when on top" was a bit off putting, probably just a case where you should have chosen better words / context . Otherwise, no complaints here. While his gaurd game wasn't the strongest aspect of his jiu jitsu game, It was still enough to give most trouble In that era. A big part due to the flexibility In his legs / hip abductors. Once he lost that as he aged, his gaurd game noticeably suffered.

If he kept working on / evolving his jiu jitsu game he probably would've continued being competitive, BJ has an amazing mind for jiu jitsu. Seems like he peaked / plateaued and stopped caring.

A greased GSP effectively nulified BJ's entire jiu jitsu arsenal off his back, I don't see that happening otherwise.

 

[NoSmilez]

Fair enough, I would agree with most of what you said here. I think It's just the way you said "he only has success when on top" was a bit off putting, probably just a case where you should have chosen better words / context . Otherwise, no complaints here. While his gaurd game wasn't the strongest aspect of his jiu jitsu game, It was still enough to give most trouble In that era. A big part due to the flexibility In his legs / hip abductors. Once he lost that as he aged, his gaurd game noticeably suffered.

If he kept working on / evolving his jiu jitsu game he probably would've continued being competitive, BJ has an amazing mind for jiu jitsu. Seems like he peaked / plateaued and stopped caring.

A greased GSP effectively nulified BJ's entire jiu jitsu arsenal off his back, I don't see that happening otherwise.

The greasing stuff I can honestly tell you it isn't on purpose. I used to see his hipster muay thai trainer do it to fighters at muay thai events several years before that fight. It's some breathing exercise he does with his trainees. On a side note, that superman stuff and the switch kicks wasn't from GSP's karate training but rather him spending some time with that trainer. I am glad GSP didn't try any of that Ong Bak stuff out in the ring. It's like that school's signature moves and that style only works for certain folks.

 

[L.T.]

Khabib would have 20 lbs on BJ in the fight he would destroy any incarnation I don't remember BJ subbing anyone from guard. He's not hopping on one foot for 25 minutes and you can't "box up" someone who will take you down at will. I think Khabib might train a little harder with an actual team and cuts down from 210 of muscle, not fat. Guy with cardio and heart like Tony or a guy with KO power are the only guys beating Khabib at 155 this is an embarrassing thread prime BJ doesn't even have a path to victory.

 

[Alcibiades007]

Khabib leading the poll... This is preposterous! Short term memory nincompoops!

 

[Nueman43]

well, I should expect such a response from a small minded person.

Perhaps It's easy to take out of context, the reality Is that I simply try to look at the bigger picture and use every tool at my disposal to do so. You'll often see career gamblers pay a great deal of attention to things like body language, energy, vibe and things of that nature. It's a massive factor, whether you're aware of It or not. You can definitely tell when a fighter Is truly "on" and this is seen as much In the leadup, walkouts as the fight itself. Technical performance Is another element too as I already mentioned.

With BJ obviously edgar was a stylistically difficult opponent for him, but It seems like It was a combination
of factors more than just the stylistic matchup. I actually meant to edit that Into the post for the sake of balance

For whatever reason though, It's clear Penn wasn't at his best. Which has been a common theme throughout his career, which BJ is going to show up. This is indisputably undeniable for the 2nd fight

Some can read situations / people better than others I suppose, not everything as black and white as your mind seems to believe

There are levels to this

Eh, you are using intuition and trying to use logic to explain how it works. The logic is there, don't get me wrong, but I have found that articulating the logic is dang near impossible. But I get you.

 

[Nueman43]

He isn't going to do well off his back against Khabib. BJ Penn's bottom game is based off sweeps and scrambles instead of submissions. He doesn't want to play guard for a long time and he plays a very conservative close guard when he cannot find sweep or try to take the back. If you excel in a particular position, you aren't going to gas out doing it. When is the last time you seen BJ Penn gas out when he is on top? When is the last time you seen someone gas out from playing guard? I will say it again, BJ Penn doesn't do well on the bottom. He is a strength based grappler who attacks from the top.

BJ's game is very very basic and it has been studied by everyone. Even that leg ride thing Khabib is known for right now was something BJ Penn used years. Khabib's top game is vastly different from Hughes. He does not stay in people's guard like Hughes.

He was constantly pulling rubber guard on GSP that GSP was having to power out of. Because BJ was threatening Omoplata sweeps and Gogoplatas. GSP's ground and pound was heavily hampered by how good BJ was off his back.

I suggest you watch some BJ highlights or something.

 

[Nueman43]

He is a black belt. I am not saying he doesn't have a guard game but it's not his preference. His style of grappling is from Ralph Gracie. It is very basic closed guard and focus on top control then pass and mount. BJ does use a octopus guard to take the back from guard. You might hear Rogan jerk off about BJ's rubber guard during his matches but he just uses it to hold. BJ doesn't have a focus on half guard game since his thing is you can't pass my guard. Once you pass his guard(I am not saying it's super easy but it's been done in MMA), he is in trouble. It broke my heart to see GSP just slice through his guard again and again. You can watch his interviews and he doesn't know what 50/50 or berimbolo(disgusting) is.
The game changed a lot since BJ was considered innovative. I don't believe BJ is competitive at straight grappling anymore. The video you posted with Leo is awesome. That was a man who frustrated Kerr at ADCC but it's also the same guy who got strangled by Khabib with a move that he invented.

You didn't watch the fight then. Why was GSP having to pass BJ's guard repeatedly during the same round?