Pride Wand vs Pride Little Nog

[Escabar]

First time using Sherdog, how do I do this?

It's fine what you've done its and interesting match up and a good thread.

Personally think Lil Nog would have taken a decision more accurate on the feet, really wanted to see this fight in fact both men spoke about it and wanted it to at the time. It was expected to happen before they made Hendo vs Wand.

 

[BoomStronk]

it's both. what i'm saying is you can't get the breadth of Wand's ability by just seeing the highlights. you have to see him fight Arona, Cro Cop etc., people think he's just going to get counterpunched by Lil Nog but ok, let's say that's true. what then? are they expecting him to KO Wand? because i have a hard time believing that. not with 1 punch. Mark Hunt and Mirko are good strikers too and Cro Cop had a difficult time the first time vs Wand. Mark Hunt also had a difficult time vs Wand. vs Oyama, Mezger, and Hendo the first time he got dropped by those guys but recovered when they couldn't follow up. if those guys couldn't KO him with 1 punch i doubt Lil Nog would.

the good thing i'll give to Lil Nog is he had a decent left cross and it's a good punch against an ultra aggro Wand with zero head movement and comes in squared up. Vitor got him like this. the problem is Vitor is much more athletic, explosive, and fast than Lil Nog is. i think Wand grinds Lil Nog up.

Great post. You've changed my mind.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

To be fair I think if your talking the fight at Pride 33 I would favour Rogerio, I think the after effects of the Mirko loss and maybe illness did render Wand some way off his best by that point and he IMHO never recovered to the level of his peak years in Pride. If your talking the fight happening some point in Pride before the Mirko loss, more prime vs prime thats potentially quite different.

Again I do think a big issue with Rogerio could be that he could be quite a passive fighter if someone didn't go after him, matches like say Mezger, Saku or Nak he doesnt really look that amazing even if he wins them whilst against Reem, Hendo and Shogun who take the figth too him he looks significant better(even in defeat to Shogun).

To just think Wand is going to try and bullrush him though I feel maybe a mistake, the Wand of Pride(well at least by the time he was champ) was not the Wand who fought Vitor in 98 who did that every fight, he had become a more technical canny striker by that point and I would not be surprised if that fight was actually quite a lot slower, Silva looking to pick away with kicks and the odd burst of aggressive boxing plus mixing in some takedowns.

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

Prime Igor would flatline Wandy.

Yup. It's hard to imagine Igor getting too rocked by Wand, but pretty easy to imagine Wand getting dropped by and Igor overhand.

 

[McSpikes]

Is this pre or post Krazy Horse KTFO of Wand?

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

I got Wanderlei in this match up. Pride Wanderlei was a lot more tactical than what most people remember which is OWGP and later Wanderlei. Wanderlei would mix kicks, the jab hooks, clinch knees and takedowns to win the fight like he did in Cro Cop 1, Hendo 1 and Rampage 1 and 2.

Of the people Wanderlei fought in pride, Rampage was the most similar to Lil Nog in their strength, but Rampage had better wrestling and Lil Nog better BJJ.

 

[BowserJr]

A fight that I used to think would be one-sided a few years ago is this one. I always thought Wand would win by KO until I analyzed it more deeply. Little Nog really has many tools to win. Today, I see this fight as 50/50. What do you guys think?

That's a good one!

Lil Nog probably wins a decision. Good chin and crisper boxing.

Another one is skinny Reem v Wand. I actually always thought Reem would win

 

[no fat chicks]

I'ma go with lil Nog

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I got Wanderlei in this match up. Pride Wanderlei was a lot more tactical than what most people remember which is OWGP and later Wanderlei. Wanderlei would mix kicks, the jab hooks, clinch knees and takedowns to win the fight like he did in Cro Cop 1, Hendo 1 and Rampage 1 and 2.

Of the people Wanderlei fought in pride, Rampage was the most similar to Lil Nog in their strength, but Rampage had better wrestling and Lil Nog better BJJ.

Even in the OWGP he actually fought quite a slow tactical match vs Fujita, only exploded when he hurt him.

I think against Mirko really a bit of panic set in due to just how good he looked right from the opening.

 

[Fedorgasm]

Probably Lil Nog. His counter punching would have been a problem. Shogun had to beat Nog by taking him down.

That's what I was thinking too.

To me, Shogun was a better version of Wandy. I think Lil Nog could beat him.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Even in the OWGP he actually fought quite a slow tactical match vs Fujita, only exploded when he hurt him.

I think against Mirko really a bit of panic set in due to just how good he looked right from the opening.

The biggest issue for Wanderlei in the rematch with Cro Cop was he lost his speed advantage by putting on so much muscle. He didn't fight him as tactically either but he didn't seem to know what to do when he couldn't outspeed him like he could in the first fight.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

The biggest issue for Wanderlei in the rematch with Cro Cop was he lost his speed advantage by putting on so much muscle. He didn't fight him as tactically either but he didn't seem to know what to do when he couldn't outspeed him like he could in the first fight.

To be fair though I still think that maybe the best performance anyone has ever given striking wise in MMA, the way Mirko was just side steping everything and throwing perfect counters,

 

[HHJ]

To be fair though I still think that maybe the best performance anyone has ever given striking wise in MMA, the way Mirko was just side steping everything and throwing perfect counters,

It reminded me when Sapp was trying to crowd him (a 350 lb wall of muscle's forward movement is a hell of a thing) and Mirko moving and countering.

It shows what he can do when he isnt just taking the center and stalking someone down.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

It reminded me when Sapp was trying to crowd him (a 350 lb wall of muscle's forward movement is a hell of a thing) and Mirko moving and countering.

It shows what he can do when he isnt just taking the center and stalking someone down.

The idea he couldnt deal with pressure for me is one of the most totally wrongheaded bits of MMA analysis which comes up, IMHO he was maybe the best MMA counter fighter ever, at least up there with people like Alex and Anderson.

 

[HHJ]

The idea he couldnt deal with pressure for me is one of the most totally wrongheaded bits of MMA analysis which comes up, IMHO he was maybe the best MMA counter fighter ever, at least up there with people like Alex and Anderson.

I mean pressure was the key to doing it, but it wasnt like you could just do it and thats it.

Alex and Sapp tried, so did that guy Fedor brought in, Ibrahim?

So it was def that camp's strategy knowing this was the key.

EASIER SAID THAN DONE THO

 

[Bullitt68]

The biggest issue for Wanderlei in the rematch with Cro Cop was he lost his speed advantage by putting on so much muscle.

No, the biggest issue for Wand in the rematch was that Cro Cop had evolved into an actual mixed martial artist, not just a kickboxer fighting an MMA match. Cro Cop was always faster than Wand - hell, Cro Cop was faster than literally everyone he ever fought save for Fedor - but in the first fight he was super green, had no real TDD and no ground game, and so he fought timid on the feet and got taken down a bunch. In the second fight, Cro Cop had years of training and experience under his belt and could actually strike to his full potential while shutting down Wand's wrestling and beating him up on the ground. Weighing a few pounds less would've changed nothing for Wand. He was going to get chewed up and spit out no matter what by that version of Cro Cop.

 

[KO Shotz]

That would have been an absolute banger.

Wand standing but Lil Nog if it went to the ground. I wouldn't be surprised if Lil Nog won via KO tho.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

To be fair though I still think that maybe the best performance anyone has ever given striking wise in MMA, the way Mirko was just side steping everything and throwing perfect counters,

Oh absolutely. I don't mean to try to take anything away from him. I'm just saying, Wanderlei was a lot slower in the rematch because of the extra weight than he was the first time

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

No, the biggest issue for Wand in the rematch was that Cro Cop had evolved into an actual mixed martial artist, not just a kickboxer fighting an MMA match. Cro Cop was always faster than Wand - hell, Cro Cop was faster than literally everyone he ever fought save for Fedor - but in the first fight he was super green, had no real TDD and no ground game, and so he fought timid on the feet and got taken down a bunch. In the second fight, Cro Cop had years of training and experience under his belt and could actually strike to his full potential while shutting down Wand's wrestling and beating him up on the ground. Weighing a few pounds less would've changed nothing for Wand. He was going to get chewed up and spit out no matter what by that version of Cro Cop.

I don't think he was faster. The first fight when Cro Cop would get off a good body Kick Wanderlei would regularly hit him with 2 punches back a kick of his own or a takedown. He was definitely more well rounded in the rematch but Wanderlei lost a good bit of speed when he packed on like 15-20lbs. He still might have lost if he didn't pack on that weight. But it would have been a lot more competitive than it was the second time.

 

[Bullitt68]

I don't think he was faster. The first fight when Cro Cop would get off a good body Kick Wanderlei would regularly hit him with 2 punches back a kick of his own or a takedown.

You should rewatch that fight. What you're describing is WAY off. Cro Cop landed six or seven body kicks in that fight, resulting in his toe prints being imprinted on Wand's right side. Only after one body kick attempt in the second round (Cro Cop landed a hard body kick but then tried another one like 20 seconds later and Wand was ready for it) did Wand land a TD. He tried to catch the first kick that Cro Cop landed in the first round, but he wasn't fast enough, and after all the rest, he threw nothing, much less landed anything as counters. In all five rounds, I only recall Wand landing one punch, when he had Cro Cop against the ropes and Cro Cop tried to throw an inside low kick while Wand was coming in with a straight right and Wand landed a glancing punch. It's crazy enough that Wand just ate those kicks and kept coming, but he most certainly wasn't effectively countering them. What Wand was able to do effectively was swarm Cro Cop with flurries against the ropes to make him have to respect Wand's striking while also landing TDs to make him worry about Wand's grappling. In short, Wand fought an MMA fight against a kickboxer and won. Whereas in their second fight, it was two mixed martial artists fighting each other and the better one won by a landslide because he was no longer fighting at a massive disadvantage.

He was definitely more well rounded in the rematch but Wanderlei lost a good bit of speed when he packed on like 15-20lbs.

He put on 10 pounds. Wand was 215 in the first fight against Cro Cop and he was 225 in the second. He was also 218 against Fujita and was still his same old buzzsawing self. Again, it's not that Wand got remarkably slower, it's that Cro Cop was that much faster and he made Wand look like he was moving in slow motion.

He still might have lost if he didn't pack on that weight. But it would have been a lot more competitive than it was the second time.