Law POTWR 2019 Vol 4: Repeal Or Respect The 2nd Amendment?

Which option is closets to how you feel about the 2nd Amendment?

  • Repeal it and outlaw all firearms

  • Repeal it and allow everything but semi-automatics

  • Keep it and the laws as they currently stand

  • Keep it and allow more restrictions and prohibitions that appeal to popular sentiment

  • Remove all restrictions on the law-abiding because "shall not be infringed" means exactly that

  • The best hookers are Russian

  • Un-incorporate it, end all federal prohibitions, and states can decide


Results are only viewable after voting.
Look, if you think lax gun control laws in a major city would somehow solve the gun violence issue, then you shouldn't be hard to back that up with evidence, such as example cities in the US or some other country or point in time. Otherwise, I think you just have cause and effect mixed up.
That wasn't the question or topic of my posts to you.

To reiterate my question/thought experiment for a third time:

Why is it that the vast majority of guns used in crimes in cities with heavy gun control are almost never involved in any violent crimes until they arrived in these large cities with heavy gun control?

You'll be unable to understand the cause and effect until you understand what supply and demand curve is being served.

Glad I could clear that up for you.
 
  • Arguing that grenades weren’t in the scope because they hadn’t been invented yet opens up an argument that any innovations in weaponry since the FFs time is not in scope of the 2nd Amendment either, which would justify regulating them to some degree.

The Supreme Court has already ruled that tazers are protected by 2nd Amendment. This precedent completely destroys the idea that the Second Amendment only applies to Arms available at the time of ratification.

Also, at the time of the ratification for the Bill of Rights, it was completely legal for a private citizen to own a fully armed warship capable of leveling entire coastal cities. Despite this, we didnt have the "blood in the streets" scare stories that we usually get told in relation to an armed citizenry.
 
Is it fair to ask that a civilian wishing to own military hardware undergo the same training, scrutiny, and regulations that the military would need to maintain, transport, store, and operate it?

No. It wouldn't be fair to ask at all.

Rights don't require permission slips to exercise.
 
I was gonna do a long, drawn-out thing with SC precedent case citations and colonial research showing how the 2nd amendment was pasted together out of a loose conglomeration of shared values and Southern insistence, but I'm going to keep it very brief.


We should repeal and replace the second amendment. And it's not a happy ending for people who don't like the 2nd.


First Principle:

We have an inalienable right to self defense. But what does that mean?

It means that no court should be able to hold that we cannot use firearms in defense of ourselves. The second amendment is a clause too long. We have a military. If a state wants a militia, do it. There is no need for "the security of a free state" anymore. Recent courts have affirmed that it's about self-defense, and they're right today, in the real landscape of 2019 in which we find ourselves.


This means that no state will be able to take away a citizen's right to self defense by the way of a gun. The details on concealed/open carry and whatnot will still have to be worked out, but what America is really asking for is a right to self defense. It's a great principle because it is simple and can be thought of as inalienable, and it's even more concrete than the pursuit of happiness! It's a great principle. Instill it.


There's a sting at the end of the tail. Lots of stings, actually. Gun grabbers will have to suck it for now, true. But the right to self defense is controlled by available technology of defense. This is just another way of saying that old frail people or cowards need guns today, but they may not need guns tomorrow. If that happens, so be it. However, the gun is the only way we have to guarantee a decent chance of self defense in dire emergencies. All gun defense is emergent when practiced by a citizen. You don't see it coming, you need the gun if you are going to put down the threat. That's it. You're old, you need a gun. You're too scared, you need a gun. If you want it. It's fundamental to our personal safety. That may not be true in the future.


To accommodate this, we need to examine a truth, and here's the truth. Every single "illegal" gun was once in the care of a good honest hardworking law abiding citizen. But it found its way into the hands of a criminal. Some by stealing, sure. But gun culturalists, back me up here. It's shady. You need some cash, you sell a gun. Happens all the fucking time. You have no control over it from that point on. We need that gun control. The control that enables us to pin a gun user to a gun, and an audit of ownership. Make a cradle-to-grave registry. There are many millions of guns grandfathered, but the journey of a thousand miles begins with one step. When the tech catches up, install biometrics. I understand there are tech obstacles there, but clearly we're going to get there.


And that's about all for the law. Strike the 2nd, and give us a right to self defense. That's the way. Word it so states cannot stop somebody from defending himself. I don't know how to do that, but it's possible for legal minds to come up with something.


On makes/functionality of weapons, let the debate continue. We're in a good place because we're debating in the same arena, quibbling over this stock or that barrel. It's fine. These are minor issues, and not a serious problem or an infringement on self defense.

That's all, thanks.

A leftist proposes to repeal the 2nd Amendment, why "because we'll replace it with something ever better, honest!"

My reaction:

<DontBelieve1>

The 2nd Amendment is just fine the way it is.
 
so mandatory reporting of sales/transfers will help us
It's nobody else's business if I own firearms, how many, what kind, or even where they are.

Also, it's my right to keep, sell, gift, alter, destroy, or otherwise disposed of my private property is I see fit. If any individual group or agency tries to prevent any of this, they have infringed upon your basic property rights.
 
Does this mean no permit? Because I am on the fence about that still. As much as I believe people should have the right to carry, I'd feel much better about it if they at least had to pass a basic safety and use class.


"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

-2nd Amendment to the Bill of Rights.


Needing a permission slip to bear arms if a clear infringement.

Constitutional carry should be the law of the land in all 50 states.

Anything short of that is an undeniable infringement based on the actual text of the 2nd Amendment.
 
So that makes 30% of the US States allowing permitless or "Constitutional Carry", 54% with "Shall Issue" CCW - and the remaining 16% - where you can maybe have a permit based on the amount cawk you smoke.
 
So that makes 30% of the US States allowing permitless or "Constitutional Carry", 54% with "Shall Issue" CCW - and the remaining 16% - where you can maybe have a permit based on the amount cawk you smoke.

When 100% of all U.S. states have constitutional carry, then I'll be satisfied.
 
Does this mean no permit? Because I am on the fence about that still. As much as I believe people should have the right to carry, I'd feel much better about it if they at least had to pass a basic safety and use class.

The one Oklahoma required us to take was pretty much a complete joke . . . some folks in the state are also whining about this requirement being removed out of pure ignorance. I'm sitting here listening to a (D) State rep doing just that on the local Sunday morning news . . . while her first complaint is the revenue loss from folks paying for the permits she isn't happy with the law changing language from concealed "hangun" to constitutional "firearm" carry. Then she proceeds to mention those evil ARs, AKs and bump stocks.
 
Hawaii Senate Urges Repeal of the Second Amendment, Introduces Red Flag Bill

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2...he-second-amendment-introduces-red-flag-bill/

This week, a resolution was introduced in the Hawaii state Senate calling on the U.S. Congress to change or repeal the Second Amendment. This resolution shows a gross disregard for individual liberties that the United States was founded upon.

_______________________________

@Cubo de Sangre

Now the people of Hawaii can see as plain as day what the political class of Hawaii truly desires.

The era of political movements hiding their true desires behind carefully chosen and manipulative language, is soon coming to an end.
 
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