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Greetings War Room Sherbros,
Welcome to the next installment of the Presidential sticky-threads. Instead of something socio-political, this one is just good old-fashioned true crime. I'm sure everyone on this board has heard of the three cases in question. After a nearly 20 year criminal career, the Unabomber was ultimately identified as Theodore J. Kaczynski. The other two crime-sprees have never been solved.
The Zodiac murders are like America's Jack The Ripper. A killer who taunts police and captures the imagination of amateur sleuths for decades after the crimes. There are a number of prime suspects, all with their pluses and minuses. Of particular interest to me is Ted K. While there isn't any direct evidence linking him to the killings, there's an abundance of circumstance and coincidence that makes him impossible to simply dismiss.
As for the Tylenol murders, where someone in the early 1980's poisoned people with cyanide, there's far less to go on than with the other two cases. However there is one amazing coincidence that ties all three together. If what's in the spoiler doesn't peak your interest then I don't know there's any evidence to be presented that would get you to entertain the possibility.
Beyond the maps, there's quite a bit similarity in styles between the Unabomber (who we know for a fact was Ted) and Zodiac.
Is it possible Ted was inspired by the Zodiac killings and copied much of it for his own criminal endeavors? Sure. But Ted's a verified genius with a 167 IQ. Everything about Ted's adult life suggests he was a man with his own ideas and unusual personality. He thought of himself as a visionary. It makes little sense that he lacked the imagination to create his own style and criminal signatures. What does make sense is if you view his Unabomber persona as an evolution from his time as The Zodiac. Looking at it that way, here's what I see as the basic outline of events.
Ted graduated Harvard in 1962, after enrolling at an early age. Awkward to begin with, he was a subject of mind-control experiments being conducted there at the time. This helped warp his personality even further. Later he went to graduate school in Michigan. At one point he was so sexually confused and frustrated that he spoke with someone about a sex-change. Here's what he said about that in his journal.
Shortly after Ted decides he wants to kill couples, the Zodiac murders begin. A few years later they stop, with a cab driver being the last confirmed victim. What's interesting here is this time there are multiple witnesses and the killer is almost caught by police. A sketch is released and the killer says he will no longer announce his deeds. The letters, however, continue on for a number of years. I think this is a period where Ted was scared straight.
In 1978, after about eight years of dormancy, the Unabomber's story begins. Interesting to note is that up until the end, the FBI was looking for a much younger man. Serial killers don't really start up in their mid-thirties. Also of note is that Zodiac threatened to plant bombs. One of his letters even had a diagram for one. So with a heightened fear of capture, Ted was inspired to become a distance-killer, and he used those years to develop his bomb-making skills.
Coincidentally, as the Unabomber, Ted took an extended break of six years (or thereabouts) right after he was spotted in Utah and a police sketch was circulated. He wasn't heard from again until after the high-profile bombings of the WTC in 1992 and the Oklahoma City bombing. Eventually captured after his brother recognized his writings in the Unabomber manifesto.
There's enough out there to write a book, so let me hit on a few other random comparisons that you might find of interest.
The main issues with Ted as a suspect is the lack of connection with the Riverside killing in 1966 and never getting a DNA or fingerprint match. It's possible Ted was in Riverside because this was around the time he interviewed at Berkeley. It's also possible the killer claimed the Riverside murders in order to throw off police. Regarding physical evidence, it's not known for sure that the police have the actual fingerprints or DNA from Zodiac. So who knows?
I haven't addressed the Tylenol case and there's not much to say. Here's a quick list of what connects the cases.
Thanks for your time and for fun I'll leave you with one last little coincidence. All of the letters of "The Zodiac" are in the name Theodore Kaczynski.![Big Grin :D :D](https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png)
Cheers,
Cubo
***This is an ongoing series of sticky-threads that will take on various topics in varying ways. If you're interested in leading a discussion on something please take a look at this thread and then send me a PM with your ideas.
POTWR 2019 Vol 1: Shots Fired! Examining Police Shootings In America
POTWR 2019 Vol 2: Happy Happy Joy Joy
POTWR 2019 Vol 3: Examining Opioid Addiction In America
POTWR 2019 Vol 4: Repeal Or Respect The 2nd Amendment?
POTWR 2019 Vol 5: Based On Known Facts, Would You Remove Trump From Office?
POTWR 2019 Vol 6: Internet Security Basics
POTWR 2019 Vol 7: Change My Mind That The Word "Platform" Is Orwellian
POTWR 2019 Vol 8: Should The Right To Keep And Bear Arms Be An International Human Right?
POTWR 2019 Vol 9: Is Social Media Access Damaging To Our Youth?
POTWR 2019 Vol 10: What Do You Like About The War Room And What Would You Change?
POTWR 2019 Vol 11: Can We All Test For Ourselves That The Earth Is Round?
POTWR 2019 Vol 12: What Role Should Schools Play In Raising Our Children?
POTWR 2019 Vol 13: Why Not Support The Military Industrial Complex?
Welcome to the next installment of the Presidential sticky-threads. Instead of something socio-political, this one is just good old-fashioned true crime. I'm sure everyone on this board has heard of the three cases in question. After a nearly 20 year criminal career, the Unabomber was ultimately identified as Theodore J. Kaczynski. The other two crime-sprees have never been solved.
The Zodiac murders are like America's Jack The Ripper. A killer who taunts police and captures the imagination of amateur sleuths for decades after the crimes. There are a number of prime suspects, all with their pluses and minuses. Of particular interest to me is Ted K. While there isn't any direct evidence linking him to the killings, there's an abundance of circumstance and coincidence that makes him impossible to simply dismiss.
As for the Tylenol murders, where someone in the early 1980's poisoned people with cyanide, there's far less to go on than with the other two cases. However there is one amazing coincidence that ties all three together. If what's in the spoiler doesn't peak your interest then I don't know there's any evidence to be presented that would get you to entertain the possibility.
The information being presented is all sourced from http://www.zodiackillersite.com/index.php. These maps are from this thread. One is of the Zodiac crimes in relation to Ted's house in Berkeley, where he lived at the time of the murders. The other is where bottles of Tylenol were tampered with and their relation to Ted's parents' house in Illinois. In fairness, there was no identified Zodiac crime at Mt. Diablo. However he claimed a bomb was planted there and sent in a map with his symbol over that exact spot. So I don't think it's a stretch to include that location for this purpose.
![tumblr_p3rotjMgjs1wkxkwyo1_1280.jpg](https://68.media.tumblr.com/2e292c1440b87c2d9b94a732ff020b23/tumblr_p3rotjMgjs1wkxkwyo1_1280.jpg)
![tumblr_p3rot4K3ap1wkxkwyo1_1280.jpg](https://68.media.tumblr.com/13166f023ea603103aea9a3e07f85f5a/tumblr_p3rot4K3ap1wkxkwyo1_1280.jpg)
Beyond the maps, there's quite a bit similarity in styles between the Unabomber (who we know for a fact was Ted) and Zodiac.
For simplicity I'll just quote the list from halfway down the page.
* Kacsynski lived in the SF Bay area during the time of most of the confirmed Zodiac murders. He was a professor at the University of California Berkeley from 1967 until the summer of 1969. It is said at the Zodiac Killer website (without any supporting evidence presented) that Ted K was out of the State of California on several dates of Zodiac activity. This is false.
* Kaczynski's attorney said he could not provide any alibi dates for Zodiac murder and mailing dates, starting with Bates in 1966 and going to the 1974 letters, and also including the Santa Barbara murders in 1963 and the Swindle murders in 1964. Not that he would not, but that he could not.
* Both Zodiac and Kaczynski were ruthless killers, highly intelligent and interested in and expert at bombs and codes.
* Both made references to opera, literature and Norse myths.
* Both demanded their words be published on the front pages of newspapers on penalty of death for innocents if not done.
* Both threatened to bomb mass transit.
* Both left drawings of crossed lines inside circles at crime scenes.
* Both used crossed lines inside circles as signatures.
* Both sent taunting messages to police and family members of victims.
* Both usually used excessive postage, often double postage.
* Both wrote checkmark "r" 's, three stroke "k" 's, five stroke "m" 's and had many other handwriting matches.
* Both commented on the bounty put on their head.
* Both were filled with hatred and a desire for revenge against society.
* Both owned and used Winchester .22 Super X ammo.
* Both had guns with flashlights attached to the barrel.
* Kaczynski shot a man at a mining site with a rifle - Zodiac threatened to shoot school kids on a bus with a rifle
* Both had an unusual walk - Officer Fouke said the man he saw at the Stine crime scene walked with a "lumbering gait...a semi-limp", a girl at Lake Berryessa observed that a man watching them who may have been the Zodiac "favored one leg over the other", and David Kaczynski said his brother Ted was "noticably pigeon-toed" and that it "affected the way he walked".
* Both had knowledge of Deer Lodge, Montana. Zodiac said he escaped from the prison in Deer Lodge, Montana. And weeks earlier Ted had just driven through this same area with his brother. It made such an impression on him that he bought a cabin there.
* Zodiac taunted police, hinted he shot SFPD Officer Radetich and most importantly attacked and killed couples in known love making spots; Kaczynski recorded a desire in his journal to kill "police", "college students", "promiscuous" women and men and "noisy" love making "couples" in September of 1966.
Is it possible Ted was inspired by the Zodiac killings and copied much of it for his own criminal endeavors? Sure. But Ted's a verified genius with a 167 IQ. Everything about Ted's adult life suggests he was a man with his own ideas and unusual personality. He thought of himself as a visionary. It makes little sense that he lacked the imagination to create his own style and criminal signatures. What does make sense is if you view his Unabomber persona as an evolution from his time as The Zodiac. Looking at it that way, here's what I see as the basic outline of events.
Ted graduated Harvard in 1962, after enrolling at an early age. Awkward to begin with, he was a subject of mind-control experiments being conducted there at the time. This helped warp his personality even further. Later he went to graduate school in Michigan. At one point he was so sexually confused and frustrated that he spoke with someone about a sex-change. Here's what he said about that in his journal.
In fact, Ted was psycho-sexually troubled in the manner of most serial killers. And keeping in mind Zodiac, who killed COUPLES in spots known for making out/love making, what Ted reports drove him to "madness" (his own words) was the sound of the U of M hockey players having sex with their girlfriends in the apartments next to him.
Ted described his "acute sexual starvation" and fantasies of being a woman.
In the summer of 1966, most likely late August/early September 1966, Ted Kaczynski records a break through moment in his life. He is a genius, yet socially alienated and isolated. He decribes hearing the sound of couples having sex in the apartment next door to his, and he says it fills him with frustration and anger. Out of despair and self described "acute sexual starvation", he records in his journal that instead of killing himself he will "really kill everyone I hate."
The people he says he hates and wants to kill are many, but they include two distinct groups. One group is what he calls "bigshots" or "government officials", and these include "scientists", "big businessmen", "politicians" and "police".
The other group of people he hated and wanted to kill included love making "couples", "rowdy college students" and those college men and women he deems "promiscuous". He calls promiscuous women "animals" and "pigs".Look at the government psychiatric report on Kaczynski done after he was arrested for the Unabomber crimes:
In the summer after his fourth year [of graduate school, the summer of 1966], he describes experiencing a period of several weeks where he was sexually excited nearly all the time and was fantasizing himself as a woman and being unable to obtain any sexual relief. He decided to make an effort to have a sex change operation. When he returned to the University of Michigan [most likely in late August or early September 1966] he made an appointment to see a psychiatrist to be examined to determine if the sex change would be good for him. He claimed that by putting on an act he could con the psychiatrist into thinking him suitable for a feminine role even though his motive was exclusively erotic. As he was sitting in the waiting room, he turned completely against the idea of the operation and thus, when he saw the doctor, instead claimed he was depressed about the possibility of being drafted. He describes the following:
"As I walked away from the building afterwards, I felt disgusted about what my uncontrolled sexual cravings had almost led me to do and I felt humiliated, and I violently hated the psychiatrist. Just then there came a major turning point in my life. Like a Phoenix, I burst from the ashes of my despair to a glorious new hope. I thought I wanted to kill that psychiatrist because the future looked utterly empty to me. I felt I wouldn't care if I died. And so I said to myself why not really kill the psychiatrist and anyone else whom I hate. What is important is not the words that ran through my mind but the way I felt about them. What was entirely new was the fact that I really felt I could kill someone. My very hopelessness had liberated me because I no longer cared about death. I no longer cared about consequences and I said to myself that I really could break out of my rut in life an do things that were daring, irresponsible or criminal." [Psych Report] {Emphasis added}
That happened sometime in the summer of 1966, most likely in late August/early September 1966. Probably mere days later, on or around September 3, 1966, bombs go off at the suburban Chicago house of Elmwood Park Mayor Elmer Conti and at a glass company on Paulina St. in Chicago. On October 30, 1966, when evidence shows Ted Kaczynski is in California, the first probable Zodiac crime, the murder of college student Cheri Jo Bates occurs.
His first confirmed Unabomber crime was in 1978, when he was 36 years old. Yet we know from research that the most active and violent period for the majority of serial killers is from their late teens to late twenties. And we see that Kaczynski reports the motivation, desire and ability to kill at least as early as the summer of 1966.
Shortly after Ted decides he wants to kill couples, the Zodiac murders begin. A few years later they stop, with a cab driver being the last confirmed victim. What's interesting here is this time there are multiple witnesses and the killer is almost caught by police. A sketch is released and the killer says he will no longer announce his deeds. The letters, however, continue on for a number of years. I think this is a period where Ted was scared straight.
In 1978, after about eight years of dormancy, the Unabomber's story begins. Interesting to note is that up until the end, the FBI was looking for a much younger man. Serial killers don't really start up in their mid-thirties. Also of note is that Zodiac threatened to plant bombs. One of his letters even had a diagram for one. So with a heightened fear of capture, Ted was inspired to become a distance-killer, and he used those years to develop his bomb-making skills.
Coincidentally, as the Unabomber, Ted took an extended break of six years (or thereabouts) right after he was spotted in Utah and a police sketch was circulated. He wasn't heard from again until after the high-profile bombings of the WTC in 1992 and the Oklahoma City bombing. Eventually captured after his brother recognized his writings in the Unabomber manifesto.
There's enough out there to write a book, so let me hit on a few other random comparisons that you might find of interest.
http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=161&start=30
Kaczynski had a life long interest in, almost obsession with, crossed lines inside circles.
1. He signed a yearbook with his "mark" - crossed lines inside a circle.
2. He spent several years of graduate study and his PHD dissertation on the boundary functions of circles, in particular dealing with the unit circle, which looks like the Zodiac symbol.
3. At the campus of a Unabomber target, he spraypainted the Yggdrasil symbol, also known as the Algiz Rune, along with the letters "FC" and "Anarchy". The Anglo-Saxon translation of the Algiz Rune is "Z"! It consists of, once again, crossed lines inside a circle. The Yggdrasil is the World Tree, but it also stands for "tree of terror; gallows", and the Algiz Rune also means to "wound severely; to mark with blood."
![]()
And a close up on his signature with the crossed lines inside a circle.
![]()
Close up on Unit Circle, Zodiac Symbol and Unabomber Symbols
![]()
http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=938&start=310
MARCELO: below are links of the letters "matrix" Ted K. of which "took" the "stuff" to construct the similar letter to Zodiac. (images below mentioned links)
happiness to all.
Marcelo![]()
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/750x970/documents/0812081unabomber1.gif
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/750x970/documents/0812081unabomber2.gif
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/750x970/documents/0812081unabomber3.gif
[Left is TK, right is Zodiac.]
![]()
One line is Zodiac, one is TK. Can you tell which is which? Not only is TK's handwriting the most similar to Zodiac's, by far, in many cases it is virtually indistinguishable. Which line is Z, which line is TK?:
![]()
http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=102&t=938&start=310
Found in the Kaczynski cabin, it is a BLACK hood with rectangular eye slits.
![]()
Compare it to the Zodiac black hood:
![]()
![]()
http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=51
This is believed to be a Zodiac letter. Could this be where Ted transforms or begins to mature? A foreshadowing of his crimes going from a sexually frustrated nature to a man making a statement against society?
This is believed to be a Zodiac letter. Could this be where Ted transforms or begins to mature? A foreshadowing of his crimes going from a sexually frustrated nature to a man making a statement against society?
![citize11.jpg](/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi77.servimg.com%2Fu%2Ff77%2F14%2F94%2F58%2F13%2Fcitize11.jpg&hash=9400fbbfce133710264c9e63e92a5da3)
The main issues with Ted as a suspect is the lack of connection with the Riverside killing in 1966 and never getting a DNA or fingerprint match. It's possible Ted was in Riverside because this was around the time he interviewed at Berkeley. It's also possible the killer claimed the Riverside murders in order to throw off police. Regarding physical evidence, it's not known for sure that the police have the actual fingerprints or DNA from Zodiac. So who knows?
I haven't addressed the Tylenol case and there's not much to say. Here's a quick list of what connects the cases.
https://www.investigationdiscovery....-unabomber-also-the-zodiac-the-tylenol-killer
- Kaczynski grew up in suburban Chicago and commenced his Unabomber campaign in 1978 from his parents’ home in Lombard, Illinois. He would later return to the residence to send out more bombs.
- The only known Tylenol fatality to occur outside of Illinois happened in Sheridan, Wyoming, a town along the interstate that connects Chicago to where Kaczynski lived in Montana.
- Potassium cyanide is plentiful in Montana due to the state’s gold mining and gold processing industries.
- Between 1970 and 1982, Kaczynski upped his Unabomber game from individual targets to attempted mass murder. He built bombs intended to generate a multitude of indiscriminate casualties and placed them, respectively, on a crowded airliner, at the University of Utah, and UC Berkeley. None of the weapons successfully discharged.
- Once again, forensic sketches of the Unabomber and the Tylenol Killer suspects do come off as strikingly related.
Thanks for your time and for fun I'll leave you with one last little coincidence. All of the letters of "The Zodiac" are in the name Theodore Kaczynski.
![Big Grin :D :D](https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png)
Cheers,
Cubo
***This is an ongoing series of sticky-threads that will take on various topics in varying ways. If you're interested in leading a discussion on something please take a look at this thread and then send me a PM with your ideas.
POTWR 2019 Vol 1: Shots Fired! Examining Police Shootings In America
POTWR 2019 Vol 2: Happy Happy Joy Joy
POTWR 2019 Vol 3: Examining Opioid Addiction In America
POTWR 2019 Vol 4: Repeal Or Respect The 2nd Amendment?
POTWR 2019 Vol 5: Based On Known Facts, Would You Remove Trump From Office?
POTWR 2019 Vol 6: Internet Security Basics
POTWR 2019 Vol 7: Change My Mind That The Word "Platform" Is Orwellian
POTWR 2019 Vol 8: Should The Right To Keep And Bear Arms Be An International Human Right?
POTWR 2019 Vol 9: Is Social Media Access Damaging To Our Youth?
POTWR 2019 Vol 10: What Do You Like About The War Room And What Would You Change?
POTWR 2019 Vol 11: Can We All Test For Ourselves That The Earth Is Round?
POTWR 2019 Vol 12: What Role Should Schools Play In Raising Our Children?
POTWR 2019 Vol 13: Why Not Support The Military Industrial Complex?