Poll: Where is Stipe in Heavyweight GOAT Ranking in 2019?

Where is Stipe in Heavyweight GOAT ranking?

  • Total voters
    471
E Undead said:
How anyone could rank him above CC and Nog is beyond me.
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Nog I get, but how anybody can rank Cro Cop ahead of Stipe (and others) is beyond me.

He was literally never #1 in the world. Hell, he was #2 for only a span of like 3 months before any sane person re-ranked Nog ahead of him after Nog avenged his Barnett loss, which was the only reason to rank Cro Cop ahead of Nog seeing as Nog had beaten Cro Cop and didn't get to beat him again in the GP because Barnett beat him in the semis.

Him being Fedor's perceived foil doesn't shoot him up the rankings. That would be like saying Gus should be a top LHW of all time.
 
markg171 said:
Nog I get, but how anybody can rank Cro Cop ahead of Stipe (and others) is beyond me.

He was literally never #1 in the world. Hell, he was #2 for only a span of like 3 months before any sane person re-ranked Nog ahead of him after Nog avenged his Barnett loss, which was the only reason to rank Cro Cop ahead of Nog seeing as Nog had beaten Cro Cop and didn't get to beat him again in the GP because Barnett beat him in the semis.

Him being Fedor's perceived foil doesn't shoot him up the rankings. That would be like saying Gus should be a top LHW of all time.
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True he was never #1 but his prime overlapped the commonly ranked HW GOAT and the commonly ranked #2 of all time in Nog.

A Nog win in a 2nd fight would have been far from a formality considering the way the original went, that's one of the greatest comebacks ever at HW after beating brutalised in the opening round.

Gus isn't really that similar is he? fighting in a weaker era at LHW, far fewer good wins.
 
answer to the original question: i would rank stipe #2 behind fedor


honest and important question: why do people rank cro cop so highly?

never held a belt in a major organization
prime losses to .500 fighters kevin randleman and mark hunt
prime losses to journeymen gabriel gonzaga and cheick kongo

his best win is over josh barnett in the open weight GP final in 2006
that's a great and impressive win, but his record does not have much in terms of achievement besides that
i get that he had some highlight reel finishes over guys in wrestling masks and prime wanderlei, but that's not enough to be considered HW GOAT over someone like Stipe
 
Stipe should 100 percent be ranked above Cro Cop all-time (for MMA).

The reverse would be serious nostalgia bias.

Kvothe_the_kingkiller said:
Was Stipe #3 2 weeks ago? Was he 14 months ago?

If you're like most, you probably had him top 5 14 months ago and lower top 10 (or even top 15) 2 weeks ago. And now top 5 again.

So I ask, should GOAT status really be that volatile in real time? Contemporary rankings certainly should be, but GOAT?
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If you think that the cluster of fighters Stipe was in were extremely close and bunched together in absolute terms, it can make sense for one gigantic win to move someone up an ordinal list with some quickness.

I personally had him in a very tight cluster with Cain, JDS, and DC (who despite his talent/skill gets penalized for not having many top HW wins)...so this fight moved him to a fair degree.
 
TheAmericanGazelle said:
If you think that the cluster of fighters Stipe was in were extremely close and bunched together in absolute terms, it can make sense for one gigantic win to move someone up an ordinal list with some quickness.

I personally had him in a very tight cluster with Cain, JDS, and DC (who despite his talent/skill gets penalized for not having many top HW wins)...so this fight moved him to a fair degree.
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Fair enough.

I don't think "of all time" ranking should ever move "a fair degree" based on any one individual fight.

So we disagree about the finer points of the criteria for a made up award ;) cheers.
 
Kvothe_the_kingkiller said:
Fair enough.

I don't think "of all time" ranking should ever move "a fair degree" based on any one individual fight.

So we disagree about the finer points that make up the criteria of a made up award ;) cheers.
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You don't always need to have big change in absolute terms to have non-trivial movements in ordinal terms. That's my only point. Imagine a ranking on something like this:

1. 100
2. 94
3. 90
4. 86
4. 86
4. 86
4. 86
8. 85
9. 79
10. 76

The person ranked 8th only needs two units to move from 8th to 4th because of how tight those people are in absolute terms (only one unit difference).
 
I believe Stipe ties Fedor
Same level of accomplishment in two separate eras.

Stipe has defeated huge names. Only faces top fighters while Fedor got fed easy fights in between title fights.

You can't compare a consecutive run with Hunt, Arlovski, Werdum, Overeem, JDS, Ngannou and DC with Coleman, Randleman, Big Nog, Zuluzinho, Kohsaka, Cro Cop, Hunt, Ong Man Choi, Brett Rogers

Ngannou is more dangerous than Brett Rogers, Hunt was more experienced in UFC, DC is ten times the wrestler Coleman is

I absolutely love Fedor, I met him twice and have his signed gloves, but Stipe is now in the same spot than Fedor. I think they share the cake and they are the GOAT of their era.

Fedor's aura and skills are unmatched, and in a ring he kills even Jon Jones, but Stipe is the master in the cage.
 
TheAmericanGazelle said:
You don't always need to have big change in absolute terms to have non-trivial movements in ordinal terms. That's my only point. Imagine a ranking on something like this:

1. 100
2. 94
3. 90
4. 86
4. 86
4. 86
4. 86
8. 85
9. 79
10. 76

The person ranked 8th only needs two units to move from 8th to 4th because of how tight those people are in absolute terms (only one unit difference).
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Got it. Re-reading your other post, I get what you said now.

And I lump like that all the time. For example, I think that Wandy & Chuck are tied for 2nd place LHW (and/or Pride MW) GOAT, and that Rampage, Wandy, Hendo, and Machida are interchangeable at 4-7. So at some point Jones immediately jumped 5 spots to #3, and then soon after jumped 2 spots to #1 (unless one discounts his GOAT ranking completely because of *, of course)
 
Top 5 for sure, he's passed guys like Couture, Sylvia, Cain, Werdum.
 
WHITE ANDERSON said:
answer to the original question: i would rank stipe #2 behind fedor

honest and important question: why do people rank cro cop so highly?

never held a belt in a major organization
prime losses to .500 fighters kevin randleman and mark hunt
prime losses to journeymen gabriel gonzaga and cheick kongo

his best win is over josh barnett in the open weight GP final in 2006
that's a great and impressive win, but his record does not have much in terms of achievement besides that
i get that he had some highlight reel finishes over guys in wrestling masks and prime wanderlei, but that's not enough to be considered HW GOAT over someone like Stipe
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Actually he did win the OWGP belt in Pride and GP events were just as much a focus as the linear ttiles(and the UFC have given some VERY undeserved title shots at HW in their time) there but ultimately belts mean nothing to me.

Wins over Barnett x 2(ignoring the freak injury), Wand, Aleks, Herring, Coleman, Igor, Waterman, Randleman etc yeah I think that's a pretty dam good record and generally he was the clear #3 guy during the best era for HW with a spilt decision to Hunt his only unvanged loss bar the top 2.

A big issue of course is that in the Pride era there weren't many existing big names from the previous era on the decline and the ones their were weren't viewed as having the same status. These days fighters records can be full of "names" who were clearly not at their best anymore.
 
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Mixfight said:
Their prime? Nog was half blind in one eye with multiple surgeries and over 30 fights. Not to mention the beatings he took from Sapp, Fedor, Mirko and wear and tear from his wars. Only a dumbass idiot like you would call that his prime.

Cro Cop had nearly 100 fights from amateur boxing,k-1 and Pride FC when he came to the UFC and insane mileage. Stop spreading bullshit. He was way past his prime by then.

I bet dumbass idiots like you think that Jose Aldo is still in his prime because hes 31.

Mileage and age are two different things and it's amazing how many idiots on this forum dont understand this. Usually the UFC geeks that have a hard time understanding this.
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If your point is both Nog and Crocop immediately ceased being in their prime upon entrance to the UFC, you can stick with that story. That is subjective, but you are welcome to your opinion.

What is objective is they could not compete in the UFC, got knocked out repeatedly and left with losing records. Crocop would go on to win many more fights AFTER leaving the UFC.

Fight exhibition level talent, get exhibition level results.

None the less, there is nothing to suggest that Mirko, Nog and Fedor competing with each other in the early 2000s recommends they are better fighters then DC and Stipe.
 
Fedor
Nog
Stipe

He needs a couple more to surpass Nog. And even more to surpass Fedor. Maybe 2 or 3 more after that
 
Last edited:
Top 5 after this recent win..

1. Fedor
2. Big Nog
.
.
.
3. CroCop
4. Stipe
5. Werdum

But he sure has time to climb those ranks with more W.
Biggest issue is those defenses bs guys kinda over the hill like JDS, Reem or a rushed Francis.. but what can you do you work with what you have.
 
How is Cain ranked higher than Stipe on some people's list? This just baffles me.
 
4th behind Fedor, Big Nog and Werdum. Its crazy that Sherdog ranked Cain 4th 2 years ago.

Fedor, Big Nog and Werdum each have almost as many top 10 wins as Cain has fights.
 
Melas Chasma said:
How many top10 ranked wins Stipe has? 7? He is probably around top3-6 all time.
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It looks like 7-8 to me, I think Roy Nelson was top 10 when they fought but he could have been in the 11-15 range. I put him 4th behind Fedor, Big Nog, and Werdum who all have 10+.
 
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