Politically Correct Homework Assignment in Texas Enrages Parents

[Limbo Pete]

And this is exactly why we need these critical thinking experiments that demand we stretch our minds. I realize you're being lighthearted, but your reaction here indicates just how narrow and emotional your reading of that is.

First, to "think" about the "positive and negative aspects" of slavery, as for a pro/con list, does NOT entail that you arrive at any positive entries. This is what we call dialectics. Negativity itself is one half of a binary concept, so to not consider the possibility of positive aspects renders the ability to perceive anything as negative impossible.

Furthermore...

Anyone who has ever posted this, or even laughed at its cold, ironic truth...has one for the "pro" column.

This is why we have teachers. Their job is to understand and frame the question. This helps kid understand why slavery comes to be. It piques curiosity about the nature and sprawl of slavery. What about the cotton industry? Was slavery not positive for the cotton industry? What else? Did slaves live better lives than free people anywhere else? If so, why?

If this teacher is being placed on leave for incompetence, that's one thing, but I fail to see any inherent racism in this. Pro/con lists are not inherently anything. That's the point of them.

Ffs Mick lol
You know i'm a historian, right?

 

[Madmick]

Making a pro/con list about something as obviously atrocious as slavery is just dumb and indefensible.

This is not an argument.

It really doesn't matter if someone ends up benefiting from slavery, that does not make it a well-framed school assignment.

That's like making a pro/con list about rape just because it exists because somebody wins.

Rape is not a social institution, nor is it complicated.

It would be much closer to asking the question, "What are the positive and negative aspects of legal prostitution?" or "What are the positive and negative aspects of Authoritarianism/Nazism?"

This stimulates thinking about much more complicated idea sets that have to be parsed.

 

[Seano]

I'd be more interested to see what kids listed as pros.

 

[nac386]

This is not an argument.

Rape is not a social institution, nor is it complicated.

It would be much closer to asking the question, "What are the positive and negative aspects of legal prostitution?" or "What are the positive and negative aspects of Authoritarianism/Nazism?"

This stimulates thinking about much more complicated idea sets that have to be parsed.

Rape has been state sanctioned in the past. The Japanese military were told to rape the Chinese to dilute their gene pool and destroy their sense of identity.

Hey Mick, make a pros and cons list for us of state sanctioned rape. Open your mind. Lol.

Give me a break man. This is a pretty simple situation of an absolutely awful assignment that could have been done effectively in 100 ways. This is not one of those ways.

Mind you, there are black kids in this class being asked to make a list of the benefits white people experienced from their enslavement, and apparently being graded on it. Lol. Deal with it snowflakes!

 

[Prime Rib]

I'd be more interested to see what kids listed as pros.

That would be interesting. BBQing probably has benefitted from slavery. Making cheap cuts of meat delicious. Soul food obviously. Just throw some pork fat in and BAM you have delicious greens, beans, etc.

 

[Madmick]

Ffs Mick lol
You know i'm a historian, right?

Sure. Make it relevant.

Rape has been state sanctioned in the past. The Japanese military were told to rape the Chinese to dilute their gene pool and destroy their sense of identity.

Hey Mick, make a pros and cons list for us of state sanctioned rape. Open your mind. Lol.

Give me a break man.

Why the hell not?

You certainly could create a pro/con list for that history, but that isn't how we typically teach that massacre. Furthermore, I'm not so cynical as to believe that merely by creating a pro/con list you will open the door to reaching a wrong conclusion that isn't possible with other teaching methods. I tend to believe that pro/con lists generally help to make it clear what the truth is. I tend to favor the viewpoint that a door, once opened, and now shut, is far more secure where it is than a door which has never been opened at all. I'm wary of dogma.

I think it would be interesting to see students ponder histories like this and their probable effect on society, and how they are ultimately deleterious not only to the "losers", but to the "winners" as well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchet

You're working so hard to dismiss pro/con lists without thinking about their potential sprawl and leverage. You're doing this based on the simple fact that a question can involve atrocities, or have an overwhelmingly clear moral conclusion (to someone already in possession of the benefit of education). I've already given similar examples.

I remember a doozy of a pro/con list from my time as a child: "Make a pro/con list for President Truman's decision to carry out a nuclear strike on Hiroshima and Nagasaki."

 

[Fawlty]

And this is exactly why we need these critical thinking experiments that demand we stretch our minds. I realize you're being lighthearted, but your reaction here indicates just how narrow and emotional your reading of that is.

First, to "think" about the "positive and negative aspects" of slavery, as for a pro/con list, does NOT entail that you arrive at any positive entries. This is what we call dialectics. Negativity itself is one half of a binary concept, so to not consider the possibility of positive aspects renders the ability to perceive anything as negative impossible.

Furthermore...

Anyone who has ever posted this, or even laughed at its cold, ironic truth...has one for the "pro" column.

This is why we have teachers. Their job is to understand and frame the question. This helps kid understand why slavery comes to be. It piques curiosity about the nature and sprawl of slavery. What about the cotton industry? Was slavery not positive for the cotton industry? What else? Did slaves live better lives than free people anywhere else? If so, why?

If this teacher is being placed on leave for incompetence, that's one thing, but I fail to see any inherent racism in this. Pro/con lists are not inherently anything. That's the point of them.

I really want to agree here (and I agree it's not inherently racist to examine it), but while this is comparable to building a magnificent desert kingdom, this is also partially comparable to having kids do up pro/con lists of living through imperial rapes of cities.

Do we start eighth graders on this? I'll make my case on them instead of on the fourth graders, which is obviously over any plausible line of decency. Of all the baggage we could bring to the discussion, "Slavery is inherently bad in its totality, and any possible good result is unavoidably stained and subsumed by its inherent evil" is rather innocuous. On the other hand, the idea of guiding children to the proper conclusions about how people justify monstrous acts, to help them identify when people are doing that (because it will happen again and again in this world), is valuable. This implies a refutation to an argument (you don't seem to make it, but many do) that we're somehow inundated with slavery slavery slavery- turns out we need to keep hearing it, if it's true that we need to arm young people against those justifications that they will soon confront.

If we can get to the lesson about rejecting the justification for slavery and maintain the axiom of slavery's pure evil, haven't we arrived at the point where we want our 13-14 year olds to be?

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Remember in Texas there were no slaves, only 'workers'. They too had a dream.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

I'd be more interested to see what kids listed as pros.

job security?

 

[Limbo Pete]

Sure. Make it relevant.

The reason I ask is because I used an emoji and you responded with a long winded post claiming I was being "narrow and emotional", and couldn't remember if you already knew i'm familiar with the issues being discussed here as an academic professional. I'm happy to discuss history pedagogy and my experiences therein but I felt like we would need to be on the same page in terms of whether or not it would be an actual discussion or just talking past each other.

 

[Madmick]

The reason I ask is because I used an emoji and you responded with a long winded post claiming I was being "narrow and emotional", and couldn't remember if you already knew i'm familiar with the issues being discussed here as an academic professional. I'm happy to discuss history pedagogy and my experiences therein but I felt like we would need to be on the same page in terms of whether or not it would be an actual discussion or just talking past each other.

I mentioned that I thought you were being humorous, but I also felt there was a substantial thought to be imparted there about how these exercises demand students to think creatively in order to satisfy the task.

I really want to agree here (and I agree it's not inherently racist to examine it), but while this is comparable to building a magnificent desert kingdom, this is also partially comparable to having kids do up pro/con lists of the living through imperial rapes of cities.

Do we start eighth graders on this? I'll make my case on them instead of on the fourth graders, which is obviously over any plausible line of decency. Of all the baggage we could bring to the discussion, "Slavery is inherently bad in its totality, and any possible good result is unavoidably stained and subsumed by its inherent evil" is rather innocuous. On the other hand, the idea of guiding children to the proper conclusions about how people justify monstrous acts, to help them identify when people are doing that (because it will happen again and again in this world), is valuable. This implies a refutation to the argument (you don't seem to make it, but many do) that we're somehow inundated with slavery slavery slavery- turns out we need to keep hearing it, if it's true that we need to arm young people against those justifications that they will soon confront.

If we can get to the lesson about rejecting the justification for slavery and maintain the axiom of slavery's pure evil, haven't we arrived at the point where we want our 13-14 year olds to be?

Yet again, many of you continue wrongly presuming that this exercise in any way entails a balanced or sympathetic conclusion rather than affirming the ignominy of slavery. There is no outcome or conclusion inherent to a pro/con list.

There's nothing that prevents the teacher from simultaneously delivering a lesson which reinforces our firmly held social belief, but we stretch our minds to better understand the mechanics of these arguments. This is how we avoid becoming the Westboro Baptist Church. We allow for the dangerous possibility that education and critical thinking might lead to unfavorable or hostile conclusions. If we do not, then we become "dull and stupid" just as Jordan Breen said to Bill Maher in the video I've watched from another thread.

Education requires risk.

The decision to suspend the teacher over a lesson for which there is no overt racism, and which appears to mirror lessons from currently approved textbooks in schools within that system, created above and outside her authority, troubles me more than the nature of the assignment. Do you guys believe she intended to promote slavery with this lesson? That is not evident, and since it is not, this reaction strikes me as yet an example of the "elevation of sensitivity over truth."

 

[Amerikuracana]

Get caught up on 20,000 years,of language and discovery

Genes get spread to area could not navigate to on own

Become part of greatest civilization man as known, as opposed to primitive tribal situation where individual was likely prisoner about to die

 

[Limbo Pete]

I mentioned that I thought you were being humorous, but I also felt there was a substantial thought to be imparted there about how these exercises demand students to think creatively in order to satisfy the task.

I.... see? Well, I await your guidance bud lol

Yet again, many of you continue wrongly presuming that this exercise in any way entails a balanced or sympathetic conclusion rather than affirming the ignominy of slavery. There is no outcome or conclusion inherent to a pro/con list.

"The Life of Slaves: A Balanced View"

Education requires risk.

What are you even talking about here, Mick

 

[Islam Imamate]

Yet again, many of you continue wrongly presuming that this exercise in any way entails a balanced or sympathetic conclusion rather than affirming the ignominy of slavery. There is no outcome or conclusion inherent to a pro/con list.

"The Life of Slaves: A Balanced View"

 

[Judge]

I really want to agree here (and I agree it's not inherently racist to examine it), but while this is comparable to building a magnificent desert kingdom, this is also partially comparable to having kids do up pro/con lists of living through imperial rapes of cities.

Do we start eighth graders on this? I'll make my case on them instead of on the fourth graders, which is obviously over any plausible line of decency. Of all the baggage we could bring to the discussion, "Slavery is inherently bad in its totality, and any possible good result is unavoidably stained and subsumed by its inherent evil" is rather innocuous. On the other hand, the idea of guiding children to the proper conclusions about how people justify monstrous acts, to help them identify when people are doing that (because it will happen again and again in this world), is valuable. This implies a refutation to an argument (you don't seem to make it, but many do) that we're somehow inundated with slavery slavery slavery- turns out we need to keep hearing it, if it's true that we need to arm young people against those justifications that they will soon confront.

If we can get to the lesson about rejecting the justification for slavery and maintain the axiom of slavery's pure evil, haven't we arrived at the point where we want our 13-14 year olds to be?

Again, it is not asking the pros and cons of slavery. It was the pros and cons of a slave's life (and an american slave more specifically).

You see how VASTLY different the two are, right???

PS SJW points for throwing in "imperial". Soros is most pleased.

I



"The Life of Slaves: A Balanced View"

Would you rather just have one side than the other. Balanced view does not mean there are equal pros and cons, only that the pros and cons are both listed. You are a history teacher ffs!

 

[Michaelangelo]

so what was the grade for the paper?

 

[Fawlty]

Yet again, many of you continue wrongly presuming that this exercise in any way entails a balanced or sympathetic conclusion rather than affirming the ignominy of slavery. There is no outcome or conclusion inherent to a pro/con list.

There's nothing that prevents the teacher from simultaneously delivering a lesson which reinforces our firmly held social belief, but we stretch our minds to better understand the mechanics of these arguments. This is how we avoid becoming the Westboro Baptist Church. We allow for the dangerous possibility that education and critical thinking might lead to unfavorable or hostile conclusions. If we do not, then we become "dull and stupid" just as Jordan Breen said to Bill Maher in the video I've watched from another thread.

Education requires risk.

The decision to suspend the teacher over a lesson for which there is no overt racism, and which appears to mirror lessons from currently approved textbooks in schools within that system, created above and outside her authority, troubles me more than the nature of the assignment. Do you guys believe she intended to promote slavery with this lesson? That is not evident, and since it is not, this reaction strikes me as yet an example of the "elevation of sensitivity over truth."

My response assumed that the teacher's motives were pure, although we have not established that, and additionally we have good reason to be skeptical of the way slavery is taught (Texas, fourth graders involved in another instance, charter schools). We would be making a mistake by assuming no foul play here- that needs to be investigated. Also, if the teacher was actually using supplemental materials approved for use, etc, then yes the suspension is certainly improper.

But assuming pure motives nonetheless, we have to suspend the idea of slavery's pure evil to approach this subject in the way you want to approach it. I believe we can get to the same place without doing that (an understanding of the evils of slavery and the ways it was wrongly justified), and it comes with the bonus of discouraging the soft-selling of slavery that we know happens even today. That's the concern of the parents. They are not okay with their children being instructed that there might be good aspects to slave life. They want it all to come with a running caveat, and I don't blame them for that, at all. These are eighth (and fourth) graders. There is some significant degree to which they really just need to be fed this stuff.

 

[Prime Rib]

so what was the grade for the paper?

Teacher just handed it back with the underlined word "Thug" written at the top.

 

[Fawlty]

Again, it is not asking the pros and cons of slavery. It was the pros and cons of a slave's life (and an american slave more specifically).

You see how VASTLY different the two are, right???

Are you joking or did you mean to lob me that juicy fucking softball? LOL.

The slave's life was the absolute manifestation of the daily horrors of the institution of slavery. The institution itself can at least claim their Pyramids (gross domestic product).

 

[tonni]

Hitler built roads. I'm not saying but still just saying...r o a d s