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Points player vs Sub player

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by gannas, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. gannas

    gannas Green Belt

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    Which are you?

    I did a comp this weekend and I realized that I am more of a points/positional player than sub player. Dont get me wrong I will take the sub if its there but usually I try to gain points first then look for subs later and most times I wont give up position for a submission. I still need to relax more when I'm up by so much, i.e. 16 - 0 or 24 - 0 and just work on subs or control more because I tend to expend too much energy which hurts me in later matches. I'm always afraid I'll make a mistake later in the match and I'll end up caught in a sub with such a big lead, so I play smart/safe.

    Should I take more risks?
     
  2. Gerbiljiujitsu

    Gerbiljiujitsu Purple Belt

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    I think it really depends.

    I had a high level brown belt competitor tell me that "a submission is a gift your opponent gives you". The guy who said this had never had a point scored on him ...ever in competition. He was a serious badass.

    In the lower ranks of competition it can be difficult to submit someone of the same level becuase a lot of people compete not to lose (instead of competing to win). When someone is being to cautious then it can be very diffifcult to finish them.

    Always keep the submission in mind, watch for it, if it comes take it. Advance your position, but yourself in the place where you need to be in order to see those opportunities but dont try to hard to make something happen. If you're in the right place at the right time things will work in your favor...it's all about being in the right place!

    keep doing what your doing, positionally dominate them and they will make the mistake, sometimes many mistakes, that lead to you getting the submission.
     
  3. ijustwannasurf

    ijustwannasurf Brown Belt

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    Gerbil +1.
    I appreciate submission wins more than medals, thats just me.
    The more you advance position (i.e. scoring points), the more opportunities you have for the finish.
     
  4. Gerbiljiujitsu

    Gerbiljiujitsu Purple Belt

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    internet is being horrible, sorry had to edit due to double post
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2010
  5. bjjaz

    bjjaz Got the Rock...Time to Roll

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    Having competed in the Worlds and Pan Ams, I would say 90% of people play for points, smaller tournys the number is a lot less.
     
  6. Cash Bill 52

    Cash Bill 52 Brown Belt

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    I mainly go for submissions to get points (adv). My submissions set up my points.

    I am trying to work on my guard passing at the moment which means I am working to get points.
     
  7. Jagcorps_esq

    Jagcorps_esq Red Belt

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    I play for neither.

    I play for position. I don't sweep for points, but to get in better position to attack. I don't pass guard because I get points. I pass guard, because it gives me better control. I don't go knee on belly for points, but to open up a tight defensive game. I don't mount for points, but to smash a crafty player and make them wear my weight. The same with back mount.

    If the submissions come, they come.
     
  8. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    I work to achieve dominant position before I start looking for subs. I guess that makes me a points player in many people's eyes, but my ultimate goal is always to submit my opponent with one of only a handful of different subs. The only sub I allow myself to pursue without having gotten on top and passed the guard is the triangle, which I try to catch as my opponent defends against sweeps.
     
  9. FXG

    FXG Orange Belt

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    i work for subs, you have to be in dominant positions to get most subs so you score along the way.

    i hate watching matches where guys are just playing for points,
     
  10. Kyuktooki

    Kyuktooki Blue Belt

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    Quotable and thus duly quoted. It has been a while since I agreed with Jagcorps.
     
  11. gannas

    gannas Green Belt

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    Good responses. I guess I do some of what you guys are saying you do too. I dont sweep just to sweep, I sweep to get a dominate position so that I can look for subs. But I do play to win but not at all costs.
     
  12. Shinedown88

    Shinedown88 Orange Belt

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    I always go for the submission, but if I can get any points I'll obviously go for it. I've won 8 matches in tournaments, 4 by sub and 4 on points.
     
  13. Jagcorps_esq

    Jagcorps_esq Red Belt

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    Thank you?

    Do I really say that much stuff that's controversial?
     
  14. Simco

    Simco Green Belt

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    Points, but not by choice.
     
  15. Jinzumkei

    Jinzumkei Rock El Columbian

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    well said :)
     
  16. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    I go for the sub relentlessly if I'm down on points and don't have a lot of time left.

    I look for a sub if I'm up on points, but my focus is more on maintaining a dominant position, basically I'm always trying to get to mount. I really don't want to get reversed and lose because I went for a risky sub and didn't get it.
     
  17. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Very elegant buddy. I think that's the perfect answer.
     
  18. fourfif**

    fourfif** Banned Banned

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    no doubt.
     
  19. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    I sweep to top position so that I can rest. :D
     
  20. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    great answer! I think this is how jj should be... sadly it isnt. I don't like pure point players....
     

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