Point deduction for missing weight?

[Ryoto Machida]

It would be interesting to add a poll if someone could kindly help me out with that.

 

[mirko>anyone]

It's cheating though. You're entering the fight with an unfair advantage.

Docking points for groin shots, low blows, and fence grabs can misrepresent what happens in the fight as well. Somehow I don't feel monetary penalties for these types of cheating would be very effective.

The fight should never start with different scores in my opinion. It isn’t “cheating”, it is a violation. You get penalized monetarily. If we are going to overturn decisive wins because someone missed weight and both decided to fight anyway, just a cancel it.

 

[SanDiego**]

Making weight is significant part of the job. I think if you miss weight, you automatically lose the fight and give your entire purse to your opponent.

People will learn to fight at their natural weight. I have zero sympathy for weight missers. They made the decision to fight at that weight so it is their responsibility to make it. Not making it is a slap in the face to the opponent, the fans, and the sport.

Do we need more weight classes? Yes. Is that a reason for people to miss weight? No. Choose your weight you choose your fate

 

[Ryoto Machida]

The fight should never start with different scores in my opinion. It isn’t “cheating”, it is a violation. You get penalized monetarily. If we are going to overturn decisive wins because someone missed weight and both decided to fight anyway, just a cancel it.

Again. You can say the same about in-fight fouls. Plenty of otherwise decisive fights have ended in a draw because the winning fighter gets docked for groin strikes or eyepokes. I don't think you can really argue that being significantly heavier is any less an advantage.

 

[mirko>anyone]

Again. You can say the same about in-fight fouls. Plenty of otherwise decisive fights have ended in a draw because the winning fighter gets docked for groin strikes or eyepokes. I don't think you can really argue that being significantly heavier is any less an advantage.

You can grab the cage Or land low blows multiple times without A point deduction.


and actually, I would argue those fouls can alter a fight drastically more than missing by 2 pounds.


Bottom line, I don’t think deducting points is the right way to approach the penalty, but to each their own.

 

[MrFreeze]

So you don't think harshly punishing weight misses acts as a deterrent to cutting too much weight?

It might, but it won't stop fighters who successfully cut unhealthy/large amounts of weight
Someone like Shane burgos would probably be closer to a LW or WW than a FW but can cut heaps of weight to gain size advantage

 

[Mask Of Winters]

I'd MUCH rather see this adopted than the current system of "not only can you clearly be 20 pounds heavier than your opponent at the time of the fight, but you also get an unlimited number of unpenalized eye gouges and groin strikes, with the possible option of having your cornermen jump the cage and use steel chairs too, before MAYBE a point is deducted depending on who the ref is and how he feels that particular moment in time".

 

[Cat Biscuits]

They do (did?) something similar in Rizin, but stricter - if you miss weight and win the fight, the result is a no contest. If you lose, it's a loss for you and a win for your opponent.

Too strict? Probably. But the current system is probably too lenient.

I like that a lot. But this would only matter if the results mattered to a legit sporting business. With the way the UFC is run, Dana doesn't care and will give fighters who lost fights a better fight next time around. In the end, i'm sure the fighters care more about their money made more than what their record says.

 

[aali14]

I'm actually okay with that, fighters would think twice before missing weight

 

[Herwald]

Interesting idea. A lot of guys don't care so much about the financial side as much as getting the W. But I'd say reduce the financial penalty if you're adding this. Both would be too drastic.

 

[arcadeperfect]

Only issue with that is, the opponent who makes weight could tend to play it a wee bit safer as he is already ahead on the scorecards. It could make him/her fight differently and approach the fight different to how they normally would.

He or she kind of has the right to do that considering their opponent didn't drain the last few pounds to make the weight limit. If you're gonna try to weasel around the rules then I should be able to fight in the most annoying way possible to secure me the win.

 

[xhaydenx]

I've always thought a point deduction in the UFC for missed weight was a good idea.

Add that to the loss of purse they already have, and you'll get people making sure they make weight every time lol.

There are definitely fighters who are happy to miss weight, lose only 20% of their purse and take the advantage of being heavier and not having to struggle as long or hard with a weight cut.

 

[jeff7b9]

By the same token, there shouldn’t be any penalty for declining the fight if someone misses weight.

but then there is a financial PUNISHMENT for the guy who did his job and made weight if he doesn’t accept the fight with the guy who didn’t do his job and gave himself a weight advantage, likely by skipping the hard part of the cut which would zap their cardio.

 

[mirko>anyone]

but then there is a financial PUNISHMENT for the guy who did his job and made weight if he doesn’t accept the fight with the guy who didn’t do his job and gave himself a weight advantage, likely by skipping the hard part of the cut which would zap their cardio.

The guy who makes weight should get show money.

 

[jeff7b9]

The guy who makes weight should get show money.

They should.

But I don’t think they do, I believe Dana’s stance is “don’t fight don’t get paid” even if the opponent misses weight.


It should be show money plus an immediate rebooking with a reasonable matchup.


I tend to think that guys who refuse the fight probably get a shit matchup after a long layoff, and I believe that is after not getting paid after a camp, which is a slap in the face.

 

[Senzo Tanaka]

Losing a point that has nothing to do with the actual fight doesn't sit right with me. Getting fined and your opponent getting a good chunk of change makes more sense. Also, the opponent is given the option to turn down the fight.

 

[XNYHCX]

They do (did?) something similar in Rizin, but stricter - if you miss weight and win the fight, the result is a no contest. If you lose, it's a loss for you and a win for your opponent.

Too strict? Probably. But the current system is probably too lenient.

I actually like that.

Make weight.

 

[mirko>anyone]

They should.

But I don’t think they do, I believe Dana’s stance is “don’t fight don’t get paid” even if the opponent misses weight.

I'm speaking about this hypothetically, as if we were actually having reform.

On the flip side, if the guy who missed weight is down x amount of points, 20% of his purse taken, he may be more inclined to pull out entirely.

I actually think the rules are fine currently. However, if you miss weight more than once, you are forced to move up. No excuses.

 

[jeff7b9]

I'm speaking about this hypothetically, as if we were actually having reform.

On the flip side, if the guy who missed weight is down x amount of points, 20% of his purse taken, he may be more inclined to pull out entirely.

I actually think the rules are fine currently. However, if you miss weight more than once, you are forced to move up. No excuses.

there’s no easy answer.

punishment too lenient= people abuse the system and “pay a small tax for an advantage”

punishment too strict = pullout city

 

[mirko>anyone]

I actually like that.

Make weight.

You'd have lots of people who missed weight declining to fight.

You lose. Your opponent loses. UFC loses. Fans lose.

there’s no easy answer.

punishment too lenient= people abuse the system and “pay a small tax for an advantage”

punishment too strict = pullout city

I am no way excusing the people who miss weight, but this shit has happened forever, and it'll never stop. Just trying to be practical here.

I don't think many fighters, if any ever, go into a full camp with the thought they won't make weight. It happens all the time, unfortunately. If fighters go into a fight knowing that they are, literally at best, going to receive a NC if they win, people who miss are either are going to pull out or end up Renan Barao'ing in the tub dying to make weight.

Like you said, there really isn't an infallible answer that encompasses everything perfectly.