Point deduction for missing weight?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Ryoto Machida, Aug 2, 2020 at 5:37 AM.

  1. Ryoto Machida Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2015
    Messages:
    4,170
    Likes Received:
    256
    Location:
    Syracuse, NY
    I was watching Alexandr Shabliy fight Adriano Martins at Fight Nights Global, and I noticed they docked Martins a point for coming in heavy.

    Am I the only one who thinks this is a great idea?

    I think a lot of guys are willing to take the hit to their wallet in exchange for a weight advantage, as a win, and a chance to move up the ladder is more valuable in the long run.

    If you dock a point, it puts getting the W in more jeopardy, and therefore not making it as worthy a trade-off.

    You could even tier it, by docking a point for every 2 pounds you came in over.

    And STILL hit them in the wallet, docking 20% of their purse.
     
  2. Hairrow Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    3,010
    Likes Received:
    153
    Location:
    Seminole, FL
    I thought that last night; purse penalty seems like a light consequence. I'd say take a point away for x % of the weight missed, 2 points for being over x%.
     
  3. Hellowhosthat Red Belt

    Joined:
    May 30, 2019
    Messages:
    9,474
    Likes Received:
    9,923
    Yeah I agree that seems fair, it has a massive impact on the fight.
     
  4. legatoblues Green Belt

    Joined:
    May 4, 2016
    Messages:
    1,247
    Likes Received:
    51
    They do (did?) something similar in Rizin, but stricter - if you miss weight and win the fight, the result is a no contest. If you lose, it's a loss for you and a win for your opponent.

    Too strict? Probably. But the current system is probably too lenient.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020 at 8:42 AM
  5. kappaz Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2011
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    5
    Only issue with that is, the opponent who makes weight could tend to play it a wee bit safer as he is already ahead on the scorecards. It could make him/her fight differently and approach the fight different to how they normally would.
     
  6. MrFreeze Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2019
    Messages:
    633
    Likes Received:
    144
    Id rather a system that promotes fighting at natural weight classes instead of punishing fighters occasionally missing weight
     
  7. Ryoto Machida Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2015
    Messages:
    4,170
    Likes Received:
    256
    Location:
    Syracuse, NY
    Interestingly enough, in the fight I was watching Shabliy kind of took the first round off, fighting defensively and getting Martins' timing. Then he came out in the second round and was able to counter everything Adriano threw at him, and started piecing him up.

    He didn't really fight safe, but he just used the point deduction tactically as it bought him a round to figure out his opponent.

    I really didn't have a problem with it.
     
    Colemanstove likes this.
  8. Ryoto Machida Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2015
    Messages:
    4,170
    Likes Received:
    256
    Location:
    Syracuse, NY
    So you don't think harshly punishing weight misses acts as a deterrent to cutting too much weight?
     
    BooBoyMan and campbecc like this.
  9. BrazilianDude Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2011
    Messages:
    19,576
    Likes Received:
    29
    In Jungle Fight, if you fail to make weight you start with -2 points, so you need to really be dominant to take the w. I think this should be the standard.
     
    MGS, Hairrow and Ryoto Machida like this.
  10. Askafan Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    4,662
    Likes Received:
    391
    The fight should decide the fight,

    The hit to the purse should also cover the win bonus, they're already disqualified from collecting a performance bonus. Big misses, 5 pounds or more the fight should be cancelled, unless the opponent is informed ahead of time that a miss is likely. In those cases they should still have to cut to an agreed catch weight.
     
  11. Ryoto Machida Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2015
    Messages:
    4,170
    Likes Received:
    256
    Location:
    Syracuse, NY
    So basically you're saying one guy should be allowed to pay a tax to cheat and give himself an advantage, and after that "the fight is the fight".
     
  12. Askafan Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    4,662
    Likes Received:
    391
    As long as the tax is sufficiently punishing that it discourages any minor advantage, I guess I am. 20% of the purse seems a suitable discouragement for say a half pound miss. They should know from the Tuesday weighin if a fighter has made a serious attempt at making weight, if they haven't cut them. Also publish cageweights, that might be an eye-opener.
     
  13. accolyte1022 Is nor.....ZZZZZZZ

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    27,020
    Likes Received:
    2,200
    Location:
    Chernobyl Exclusion Zone
    Take 50% of the pay for a first offense, 80% for the second, third = go to Bellator.
     
    Street Bishop likes this.
  14. EndlessCritic Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2013
    Messages:
    23,753
    Likes Received:
    1,526
    Lots of promotions do this.

    This is way Efrain/Motoya is a NC. Efrain KO'ed him.

    Bontorin/Kasugai is a NC. Bontorin armbarred him in the first round.

    Kyung Ho Kang's "decision" loss to Leone was a fight Kang dominated. He only lost because of the weight miss.
     
    legatoblues likes this.
  15. SeattleFightFan Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    30,248
    Likes Received:
    821
    Jungle Fights, source = https://www.mmafighting.com/platfor...nts-ufc-jungle-fight-five-years-what-happened

    ...every athlete that came up over the limit would lose 20 percent of their purses and be deducted one point. If they missed weight by more than 1kg (2.2lbs), they lose another point. If they are more than 2kg (4.4lbs) over, they lose three points. ​

    The article goes on to include stats, like only 1/7 fighters who have missed weight won a decision. In 5 years.

    It’s a good system.
     
    jeff7b9 and legatoblues like this.
  16. mirko>anyone Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    6,595
    Likes Received:
    1,077
    Location:
    Greencastle
    I don’t like it. I someone is heavy, you get 20% of their purse and you accept the circumstances given, if that’s what you elect.

    i don’t like the idea of arbitrary points being awarded that misrepresent what occurred during the fight.

    By the same token, there shouldn’t be any penalty for declining the fight if someone misses weight.
     
  17. mirko>anyone Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    6,595
    Likes Received:
    1,077
    Location:
    Greencastle
    This is exactly why I don’t like this idea. Just cancel the fight then. We know going in you’re overweight. Your adversary accepts the extra money and decides to fight anyway, so it shouldn’t be a game of catch-up or drastically altering the outcomes after a decisive victory.
     
  18. AnotherOldGuy Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    4,688
    Likes Received:
    127
    Probably. But that's a good reason to not miss weight.
     
  19. Texan6533 Fastest Gun in the West

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    5,891
    Likes Received:
    859
    Location:
    God's Country...Texas
    Actually, that would be fair in my opinion as well. If your opponent accepts the fight anyway, you shouldn’t be given the advantage. You should start at a disadvantage.
     
  20. Ryoto Machida Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2015
    Messages:
    4,170
    Likes Received:
    256
    Location:
    Syracuse, NY
    It's cheating though. You're entering the fight with an unfair advantage.

    Docking points for groin shots, low blows, and fence grabs can misrepresent what happens in the fight as well. Somehow I don't feel monetary penalties for these types of cheating would be very effective.
     
    DelanoRunnymede likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.