Poatan is not big enough for 205.

Welterskelter said:
“Did you see the size of the fella? Dude's a giant. Who let this guy in?” -Robert Whittaker
Pereira’s won kickboxing titles at LHW. I don’t think size will be an issue at all. It will come down to his mma skills.
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I agree I just think there is a Goldilocks argument for guys who are too big for some weightclasses and too small for others
 
His grappling is definitely gonna be tested in the Jan fight much more than it ever has been before. Gotta respect him for taking a fight like this right off the bat rather than something more stylistically suitable.

How fucking wild would Poatan vs guys like Jiri and Walker be though..
 
pankrat said:
I agree he is not small for LHW, but not big neither. And definitely small for HW doesnt matter his 6'4" because of his skinny body type, regardless of how athletic he "looks" to you or how much his build impresses you.

Because a legit HW could not make 185 as many times as he did. Period. He competed in that weight class for the majority of his kickboxing career too. Those are plenty of bouts.

Mention any legit HW who could have competed at 185lbs consistently from his early 20s to his late 30s. You can't because legit sized HWs are guys who, even several inches shorter than Pereira, are naturally much thicker, which you would realize being next to them or grappling with them rather than looking at a pic.
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Jared cannonier was a heavyweight and now is a top 5 middleweight.
 
pankrat said:
I agree he is not small for LHW, but not big neither. And definitely small for HW doesnt matter his 6'4" because of his skinny body type, regardless of how athletic he "looks" to you or how much his build impresses you.

Because a legit HW could not make 185 as many times as he did. Period. He competed in that weight class for the majority of his kickboxing career too. Those are plenty of bouts.

Mention any legit HW who could have competed at 185lbs consistently from his early 20s to his late 30s. You can't because legit sized HWs are guys who, even several inches shorter than Pereira, are naturally much thicker, which you would realize being next to them or grappling with them rather than looking at a pic.
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Also I know how big alot of MMA fighters are because I've met them. Jon Jones for instance, when I met him I was 230lbs, and I'm very well muscled. I'm 5ft 10-11. So I may have been as heavy if not heavier but he was clearly the naturally bigger man and more suited to the heavier weight classes.
 
dalegordon said:
Jared cannonier was a heavyweight and now is a top 5 middleweight.
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Yeah exactly. He was not a legit sized HW. He was an overweight, undersized one.
And as a MW, he is even more dry than Pereira
 
pankrat said:
Yeah exactly. He was not a legit sized HW. He was an overweight, undersized one
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So if they haven't cut from heavyweight to middleweight how can we ever tell? Unless you prerequisite to being a heavyweight is being 265 which Alex isn't. Fedor for instance regarded as one if not the goat could be at 205 and even 185 with his frame but Alex couldn't? Even thought he would carry way less fat. Jones has bulked to heavy and has a gut but Alex couldn't? What is it your trying to say? Alex could be an effective heavyweight, he would be by far the best striker and would be the same size as weight as smaller heavyweights with a bigger heavyweights reach whilst being moderately lean. I'm not even suggesting that's what he should do because his wrestling isnt nowhere near the level it needs to be, so his size and strength aren't the factor it's the grappling which would be his downfall.
 
Ah, the weirdest thread I’ve seen is still going strong. Um, yes, he is absolutely big enough for LHW. We’ll find out pretty quick if his grappling is up to the task against other big fighters. He isn’t taking on Jon Jones but the division isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. Ask Izzy and Rocksalt how easy it is to move up.
 
dalegordon said:
Jared cannonier was a heavyweight and now is a top 5 middleweight.
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He was a pudgy HW.

DC was a HW too. So is Chris Barnett and Jake Collier. No one would say these guys are natural HW's, they're just short, pudgy guys who don't want to diet
 
dalegordon said:
So if they haven't cut from heavyweight to middleweight how can we ever tell? Unless you prerequisite to being a heavyweight is being 265 which Alex isn't. Fedor for instance regarded as one if not the goat could be at 205 and even 185 with his frame but Alex couldn't? Even thought he would carry way less fat. Jones has bulked to heavy and has a gut but Alex couldn't? What is it your trying to say? Alex could be an effective heavyweight, he would be by far the best striker and would be the same size as weight as smaller heavyweights with a bigger heavyweights reach whilst being moderately lean. I'm not even suggesting that's what he should do because his wrestling isnt nowhere near the level it needs to be, so his size and strength aren't the factor it's the grappling which would be his downfall.
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Yes he could.
Joe Riggs also ended up fighting at HW, being a former WW. Among others.
They are still not natural HWs, they dont have that kind of natural thickness.
Fedor had it to a good extent, and not because of the gut, but he was short and indeed a small HW, better suited for LHW.

Going by your frame-based logic, just about any 6"2' WW is an ok sized LHW. Its just about fill out that frame. Is that correct?
 
The point is he could be a heavyweight with no problem. Could. He isn't undersized as light heavyweight ... I'll leave it here because it's going round in circles
 
dalegordon said:
The point is he could be a heavyweight with no problem. Could. He isn't undersized as light heavyweight ... I'll leave it here because it's going round in circles
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Fair enough.
Pereira, a very big MW, could compete at HW as Franklin, Machida, Sonnen or Rashad did.
He would have problems with the physicality at HW though. As Franklin had with LHW Griffin

dalegordon said:
So if size and strength aren't the factor it's the grappling which would be his downfall.
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His grappling served him well enough at MW, a division with more skilled grapplers than HW. His size and strenght is a factor.

At HW, even an unskilled grappler could impose HW size and strenght on him.
 
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dalegordon said:
Also I know how big alot of MMA fighters are because I've met them. Jon Jones for instance, when I met him I was 230lbs, and I'm very well muscled. I'm 5ft 10-11. So I may have been as heavy if not heavier but he was clearly the naturally bigger man and more suited to the heavier weight classes.
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If you were 230lbs at that height, you are either a natural HW, thick af unlike Alex, or you were far from fighting shape by excess of fat or bulk/cardio.

Btw, Jones himself refused to fight Cormier at HW because it would give Cormier and advantage since DC is, as Jones acknowledged and nobody refutes, a body more suited to gain weight, to get a more physical HW, than Jon is.

How does this fit into your frame-based theory?
 
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pankrat said:
If you were 230lbs at that height, you are either a natural HW, thick af unlike Alex, or you were far from fighting shape by excess of fat or bulk/cardio.

Btw, Jones himself refused to fight Cormier at HW because it would give Cormier and advantage since DC is, as Jones acknowledged and nobody refutes, a body more suited to gain weight, to get a more physical HW, than Jon is.

How does this fit into your frame-based theory?
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I am a man who weighed that, infact I weigh 238lbs atm, I'm a gym guy. I'm in no fighting shape. I'm saying me and Jones weighed roughly the same and his frame had.plenty more to add and mine didn't. Jones is heavyweight now because he wanted the extra weight to be stronger than the rest, his frame has.easily handled the transition. To your second point, at 230 he is much much leaner than sonnen, machida, Franklin etc would ever be at that weight because his frame allows it. Like I keep saying the point is to argue that he isn't undersized at light heavy. Not even slightly.
 
dalegordon said:
I am a man who weighed that, infact I weigh 238lbs atm, I'm a gym guy. I'm in no fighting shape. I'm saying me and Jones weighed roughly the same and his frame had.plenty more to add and mine didn't. Jones is heavyweight now because he wanted the extra weight to be stronger than the rest, his frame has.easily handled the transition. To your second point, at 230 he is much much leaner than sonnen, machida, Franklin etc would ever be at that weight because his frame allows it. Like I keep saying the point is to argue that he isn't undersized at light heavy. Not even slightly.
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Cormier could also handle the transition to a higher weight better than you, most likely. And better than Jon too, despite his 5'8".

Jones is a big man, indeed. A big LHW. Thats why its not conceiveable for him to fight at 185 as Alex did for so long.

Pereira is not really undersized at LHW I agree, similar to 6'2" WWs Khamzat, Okami or Till at 185.
But he is smaller/lighter than OSP or Forrest to name a couple legit LHWs with his frame apart than Jones.
Alex would definitely be in phisicality dissavantage at HW, way more dramatic than the skill gap he could find there
 
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pankrat said:
If you were 230lbs at that height, you are either a natural HW, thick af unlike Alex, or you were far from fighting shape by excess of fat or bulk/cardio.

Btw, Jones himself refused to fight Cormier at HW because it would give Cormier and advantage since DC is, as Jones acknowledged and nobody refutes, a body more suited to gain weight, to get a more physical HW, than Jon is.

How does this fit into your frame-based theory?
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Y'all have milked that quote for everything it's worth over the years.
 
ferrisjso said:
Y'all have milked that quote for everything it's worth over the years.
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This might be the first time I quoted it, honestly.
Jones surely believes that would beat Cormier at HW, and I think he is right.
But his take about Cormier's build to gain weight and perform at HW is right too.
 
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