palm striking

[ballie]

I'm wondering if anyone has some good palm striking advice, because I will certainly break my fingers on the street, my fingers stick out to much when I make a fist. It's a bummer even with gloves.
I want to keep my muay thai style of fighting, but just use the palm when I'm not wearing gloves, does anyone know what's the best way to hold fingers etc..

thanks

 

[ballie]

Bas Rutten knows the trick, but I'm not able to post on the "ask the fighters" forum..

 

[Rex Kwon Do]

Learn a style of Kung Fu and you'll get plenty of great palm strikes.

 

[SmashiusClay]

Bas talks a lot about actually hitting with the bones of the wrist rather than actually using the wrist. Mind you he also talks about how to punch bareknuckle without breaking your hands, afterall he comes from a background of kyokushin, kind of hard to explain but its basically to do with lining up the fist so the middle knuckle is directly infront of the forearm so the metacarpal takes all the force in compression.

 

[ballie]

Bas talks a lot about actually hitting with the bones of the wrist rather than actually using the wrist. Mind you he also talks about how to punch bareknuckle without breaking your hands, afterall he comes from a background of kyokushin, kind of hard to explain but its basically to do with lining up the fist so the middle knuckle is directly infront of the forearm so the metacarpal takes all the force in compression.

yes but I just can't get my fingers deep enough into my fist, so whatever I do, I don't think I will ever be able to hit bareknuckle, unless I only hit the tip of the chin with only my knuckles wich is practicly impossible on the streets

your right about bas, on the ground he likes to use that, but he is definetly an example of MT technique with the palm in his pancrase fights

 

[karateka666]

yes but I just can't get my fingers deep enough into my fist, so whatever I do, I don't think I will ever be able to hit bareknuckle, unless I only hit the tip of the chin with only my knuckles wich is practicly impossible on the streets

your right about bas, on the ground he likes to use that, but he is definetly an example of MT technique with the palm in his pancrase fights

Did you ever have any kind of hand injury? I kind of find it hard to believe that you can't keep your fingers in your hands without some sort of trauma to your hands. Though I am not calling you a liar, just never heard of anything like that before.

Karateka666

 

[ballie]

it's only one finger, the first one can't flex enough its really weird, my MT coach was the first to notice, except for myself when I was hitting the bag. I always thought I was just hitting wrong, but that stupid finger just sticks out to much, I HATE IT!

 

[MoWy]

I love palm striking, and specially in your case if you cannot use your fist safety.

 

[prometheus]

I'd suggest that as you have such difficulty in making a fist, instead just develop your palm strikes, they have a number of advantages, you'll be less likely to injure yourself when hitting someone, your blows don't need to be as accurate to still connect and either damage or distract your opponent and also, one of the more useful blows that can be used in a 'streetfight' I've found, is basically jabbing at the centre of the opposite players face with the heel of the hand, with a fist, the movement is slightly slowed, and, unless very accurate, it's less effective.

Just for a bit of fun, spend a little time practicing hitting the heavy bag like this, keep your habds low and relaxed, then just hit at the bag at around face height, landing with the heel of the hand, after a little practice, you'll see how easy it is to do this fairly qickly and accurately.
Also remember that in most 'street' type situations, your assailant, if he's expecting you to hit him at all, will most likely expect you to telegraph some kind of haymaker, as, that's what most people do in such situations, so the straught palm straight through the middle is a good opening shot, it's both unexpected and difficult to block.
Have fun.

 

[ballie]

thank alot man, I spend some time on the bag yesterday and it does work wel, I'm just trying to do the same thing as when I'm boxing, with tha palm of my hand. The only thing that feels awkward is when I try to have my strikes ending in a strecthed arm before i pull back, probably because my wrist isn't used to this extension, and yes indeed it's alot safer, also when you hit an elbow for example you have not as much chance to injure yourself, the only problem I have is that I still have the habit to use my fists for example when i slip a punch, because of my MT training. I'm going to train one day a week with only my palms from now on..

 

[oyaji poi]

the rodney king striking dvd's has a good couple of sections on striking for the "street". it includes a open hand slap to the side and back of the head. he says to do it with a downward motion. if you go upwards there's a good chance you'll just skiff the top of the head if the guy ducks. but if you angle downwards, there's actually alot of force behind that kind of a strike, enough to knock someone over or at least off balance. then you can stomp or kick or run or do whatever you need to. makes sense to me.

he also mentioned pushing someone in front of a car if you can too. and hey, why not eh?

 

[Soulfly]

the rodney king striking dvd's has a good couple of sections on striking for the "street". it includes a open hand slap to the side and back of the head. he says to do it with a downward motion. if you go upwards there's a good chance you'll just skiff the top of the head if the guy ducks. but if you angle downwards, there's actually alot of force behind that kind of a strike, enough to knock someone over or at least off balance. then you can stomp or kick or run or do whatever you need to. makes sense to me.

he also mentioned pushing someone in front of a car if you can too. and hey, why not eh?

Hahahah... Awesome.

 

[Matt Thornton]

Palm strikes are great. It's a shame you don't see more palm strikes and hammerfists in competition; punching isn't the only way to hit.

The ideal time to use a palm strike is really close quarters. Strikes generate force with distance. Any good boxing coach will immediately stop you if you're "crowding" your punches; getting too close to the target. TO GENERATE POWER, YOU NEED DISTANCE.

That being said, when you're really close, for example, clinching someone while in your guard, your strikes are weak not only because you're on your back, but because there is no distance for the punches to travel. Now, measure the length of your fist. And then look how much distance is added when you switch to a palm strike.

When you're really close, palm strikes are stronger than punches, because they have more distance to travel. And they definitely have KO power.

One thing I'd like to see is a good, stiff palm strike to the nose in a clinch. Break someone's nose, and you're going to have a serious advantage.

 

[Matt Thornton]

the rodney king striking dvd's has a good couple of sections on striking for the "street". it includes a open hand slap to the side and back of the head. he says to do it with a downward motion. if you go upwards there's a good chance you'll just skiff the top of the head if the guy ducks. but if you angle downwards, there's actually alot of force behind that kind of a strike, enough to knock someone over or at least off balance. then you can stomp or kick or run or do whatever you need to. makes sense to me.

Yeah, those slaps are perfect.

He explains that the open palm slap is a good option for the street because it's easy to break your hands. He also explains that a great knockout spot that isn't widely known is the back of the head. Then he demonstrates how hard this "slap" is. (In Bas Rutten's words, it's "Not a bitch slap." It's a palm strike hook.) Get in a clinch, bend the guy over, and whack him in the back of his head with the heel of your hand as hard as you can. KO right there.

 

[WatcH OuT]

Okay we talked about how effective a palmstrike can be and when it's the best way to use, but how in the hell can you make your palmstrikes better and stronger???

What are the best ways to condition your palm strikes, with wakimara or with woodenman ???

Any tips are more then welcom !!!

I also think some kind of techniques are underistamated like the hammerfist, palmstriks, etc. Also if we are talking about steetselfdefence like poking with the fingers, cratching, grabbing, etc....

 

[Eclypse]

The best thing you can do is to condition your brain to remember to hit with the heel of your hand only. If you hit any higher than the heel, it will cause your wrist to hyperextend, and then you start to mash up the bones and connective material in the back of your wrist and you get carpal tunnel and so on. Makes dates with Miss Michigan a little less fun. :biggrin:

Basically, if you follow a straight line from the position you hit with your hand toward your elbow, and at any point it is no longer directly supported by your forearm bones, you're going to have hyperextension problems. It's also better to hit with the thumb side of your hand, be it fists or heels; the bone on that side is much thicker, hence it handles blows better.

"Palm" strikes, with their extra padding, are a little less effective against muscle-laden targets, like the abs. Not to say they're absolutely ineffective, just less effective. However, you can hit hard targets, like the jaw, with less damage to yourself. That doesn't mean you can palm someone in the crown and get away scotfree, though.

Anywho, maka wara techniques are usually for hardening bones, and since there's quite a bit of flesh in the heel area, it may not work out. I'm no maka wara expert, though, so...I'm sure someone will fill in that gap.

 

[oyaji poi]

just hit the heavy bag or focus mits like you normally would. and as was mentioned, condition your brain to hit with your heel. if you always hit with oyur fists, you will most likely do that under pressure. but if you spend some time striking with your heel/palm, and make a mental note about it, you're much more likely to remember to do it automatically in a street fight. i never do it, so my first reaction would just to start punching like normal.

 

[BeRGLeZ]

Uppercut palms are good from a clinch and are very quick.