Overhand palm heel vs overhand punch for barefist

[Cole train]

I prefer the archie slap

 

[listrahtes]

But if MMA was done without gloves I can guarantee you would see alot more fighters perfecting them also.

There is nothing holding them back with MMA gloves. What works bareknuckle works with mma gloves. They would be even more effective as there is no padding at the palm. We talk about thousands of mma fighters and even more hobbyists. Bas is the exception. Your argument is proving of a point by ignoring all evidence because one in thousands favours them "OUTSIDE" of competition and well you dont spar and try it out . Again you would show your own live demo if you`d trust the application. That you dont tells everything we need to know.

edit: you are now back in your circle jerk. Doesnt make sense to continue that.

 

[TheMaster]

There is nothing holding them back with MMA gloves. What works bareknuckle works with mma gloves. They would be even more effective as there is no padding at the palm. We talk about thousands of mma fighters and even more hobbyists. Bas is the exception. Your argument is proving of a point by ignoring all evidence because one in thousands favours them "OUTSIDE" of competition and well you dont spar and try it out . Again you would show your own live demo if you`d trust the application. That you dont tells everything we need to know.

Don't get why you find this simple point so hard to understand, you don't want to understand it.

And what works for bareknuckle doesn't equate exactly with what works with mma gloves, if it did we wouldn't need mma gloves to begin with....

Punching is favoured in mma because gloves protect the hands. Without gloves, it might even end up 50-50 how many favour palm strikes over punching. Maybe even a higher percentage would favour palms.

There is only a small pool of MMA fighters who have developed skills with them, one who does advocates their use over fists for self defence in some situations.

I have used them in sparring with good effect, and prefer them for certain strikes.

 

[Woldog]

Don't get why you find this simple point so hard to understand, you don't want to understand it.

And what works for bareknuckle doesn't equate exactly with what works with mma gloves, if it did we wouldn't need mma gloves to begin with....

Punching is favoured in mma because gloves protect the hands. Without gloves, it might even end up 50-50 how many favour palm strikes over punching. Maybe even a higher percentage would favour palms.

There is only a small pool of MMA fighters who have developed skills with them, one who does advocates their use over fists for self defence in some situations.

I have used them in sparring with good effect, and prefer them for certain strikes.

Actually the history of MMA gloves is so that MMA could get on TV with the gloves on the theory was there would be less blood because fist strikes were still the primary form of combat used. Not to protect fighters hands.

 

[TheMaster]

Actually the history of MMA gloves is so that MMA could get on TV with the gloves on the theory was there would be less blood because fist strikes were still the primary form of combat used. Not to protect fighters hands.

Don't see where the article says that.
But alot of fighters starting wearing them themselves to protect their hands.

Are you arguing they don't protect the hands and you can't hit alot harder with less concern?

Find it interesting that they cite Bruce as the likely inspiration also. In fact I made a thread about it.

 

[Woldog]

Don't see where the article says that.
But alot of fighters starting wearing them themselves to protect their hands.

Are you arguing they don't protect the hands and you can't hit alot harder with less concern?

Find it interesting that they cite Bruce as the likely inspiration also. In fact I made a thread about it.

"The main reason the sport was portrayed as barbaric and primitive is because of the severe bleedings, nasty cuts and groin strikes which were literally painful to watch! No media house wanted to get involved with the sport on these terms and MMA needed to develop an innovative solution that will make it more disciplined and suitable to watch, fast!"
The intro to the article is literally telling you why they were adopted.

I've worn MMA gloves a few times in Caged Muay Thai, they didn't thrill me then and I doubt they'd thrill me now, not because of a lack of hand protection but just because it was weird using them after 10+ years of only using boxing gloves in the ring.
I hit the same regardless of if I'm wearing gloves or not, I'm not exactly a heavyweight so the mass behind the punches isn't the same the only real difference is it hurts a little more. I'm not sure if they've ever done a study into which weight classes suffer the most fractures, but I would hazard a guess it's Cruiserweight and above or potentially atomweight/flyweight because their bones would be tiny.

 

[TheMaster]

"The main reason the sport was portrayed as barbaric and primitive is because of the severe bleedings, nasty cuts and groin strikes which were literally painful to watch! No media house wanted to get involved with the sport on these terms and MMA needed to develop an innovative solution that will make it more disciplined and suitable to watch, fast!"
The intro to the article is literally telling you why they were adopted.

I've worn MMA gloves a few times in Caged Muay Thai, they didn't thrill me then and I doubt they'd thrill me now, not because of a lack of hand protection but just because it was weird using them after 10+ years of only using boxing gloves in the ring.
I hit the same regardless of if I'm wearing gloves or not, I'm not exactly a heavyweight so the mass behind the punches isn't the same the only real difference is it hurts a little more. I'm not sure if they've ever done a study into which weight classes suffer the most fractures, but I would hazard a guess it's Cruiserweight and above or potentially atomweight/flyweight because their bones would be tiny.

Well it also clearly says that some of the fighters themselves took to wearing gloves long before they were mandated which was only at UFC 14.
So that kind of disputes the theory about the ratings or at least shows that it was a decision among many fighters anyway before that.
The first guy to popularize their use in the UFC was this guy starting from UFC 6.


I recall him saying "I've been in enough fights to know that when I hit you my hands are gonna blow up"

I imagine if you were in a situation where you needed your hands to last in a fight without time limits and especially if you might need them to grapple you would want to wear them as well no matter your weight if you intended to use your fists.

 

[Woldog]

Well it also clearly says that some of the fighters themselves took to wearing gloves long before they were mandated which was only at UFC 14.
So that kind of disputes the theory about the ratings or at least shows that it was a decision among many fighters anyway before that.
The first guy to popularize their use in the UFC was this guy starting from UFC 6.
View attachment 870889

I recall him saying "I've been in enough fights to know that when I hit you my hands are gonna blow up"

I imagine if you were in a situation where you needed your hands to last in a fight without time limits and especially if you might need them to grapple you would want to wear them as well no matter your weight if you intended to use your fists.

I broke my foot in 3 places playing rugby, I kept playing for 10 minutes before I realised something was wrong. Adrenaline is far more powerful than you seem to realise. If I'm in a life or death situation I'm not going to worry about breaking my hands, I'll bite the guys throat if I have to.

 

[TheMaster]

I broke my foot in 3 places playing rugby, I kept playing for 10 minutes before I realised something was wrong. Adrenaline is far more powerful than you seem to realise. If I'm in a life or death situation I'm not going to worry about breaking my hands, I'll bite the guys throat if I have to.

It's not about what you are willing to do its whether you would still able to.

There's plenty of pro fighters who have broken their hands and had to stop using them or adjusted their gameplan drastically adrenaline or not even though they kept fighting.

 

[Woldog]

It's not about what you are willing to do its whether you would still able to.

There's plenty of pro fighters who have broken their hands and had to stop using them or adjusted their gameplan drastically adrenaline or not even though they kept fighting.

This is where you don't understand what you're talking about. If you had fought in the ring you would know - Adrenaline lasts about the first 1.5 minutes of round one when you're in the ring. Because you know beforehand what you're getting into and that you will be punched and hurt and you calm the nerves pretty quick. The majority of my fights I didn't have any adrenaline rush because I was used to fighting and knew what was coming when I started the walk to the ring. Adrenaline outside of the ring is completely different, because you usually aren't expecting to have to fight, your base animal survival instincts come out.
@sweetviolenturg would know what I'm saying here. Adrenaline happens when you are fearful for your life. The average fighter with more than 5 fights won't get that survival instinct surge of adrenaline. You fight on basically like it's a normal day.

In rugby you get adrenaline surges all through the game, because you never know what is going to happen.

 

[TheMaster]

This is where you don't understand what you're talking about. If you had fought in the ring you would know - Adrenaline lasts about the first 1.5 minutes of round one when you're in the ring. Because you know beforehand what you're getting into and that you will be punched and hurt and you calm the nerves pretty quick. The majority of my fights I didn't have any adrenaline rush because I was used to fighting and knew what was coming when I started the walk to the ring. Adrenaline outside of the ring is completely different, because you usually aren't expecting to have to fight, your base animal survival instincts come out.
@sweetviolenturg would know what I'm saying here. Adrenaline happens when you are fearful for your life. The average fighter with more than 5 fights won't get that survival instinct surge of adrenaline. You fight on basically like it's a normal day.

In rugby you get adrenaline surges all through the game, because you never know what is going to happen.

Well you likewise haven't been in many life risking conflicts outside, a few scraps at parties.
You are counting on adrenaline to override possible impairment from injury in the heat of the moment.
I get that you want to feel confident in outside situations but it's not preferable to go in with an attitude of "if I get injured it doesn't matter since adrenaline".

What if someone was trying to choke you and you couldn't grab properly because you broke your hand?
Surely it's better to train for minimizing injury to maintain maximum functionality.

You don't advise someone to shoot a double leg or a rugby tackle on concrete and smash their knees up just because adrenaline, that's one reason standing Judo throws or foot sweeps are much better.
That's my view.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Well it also clearly says that some of the fighters themselves took to wearing gloves long before they were mandated which was only at UFC 14.
So that kind of disputes the theory about the ratings or at least shows that it was a decision among many fighters anyway before that.

How did you jump from “some” to “many”?

Besides tank and art jimmerson, how many other fighters chose to wear gloves before they were mandated?

 

[Woldog]

Well you likewise haven't been in many life risking conflicts outside, a few scraps at parties.
You are counting on adrenaline to override possible impairment from injury in the heat of the moment.
I get that you want to feel confident in outside situations but it's not preferable to go in with an attitude of "if I get injured it doesn't matter since adrenaline".

What if someone was trying to choke you and you couldn't grab properly because you broke your hand?
Surely it's better to train for minimizing injury to maintain maximum functionality.

You don't advise someone to shoot a double leg or a rugby tackle on concrete and smash their knees up just because adrenaline, that's one reason standing Judo throws or foot sweeps are much better.
That's my view.

I've been in quite a few life risks outside of it. Ever hunted 120kg boars in the dark? or been stabbed? I have done both (one yesterday and it was nerve racking), the latter being quite the boost of adrenaline to the point I didn't even realise I had a knife stuck in my thumb bone.
I'm fairly certain if it comes down to it, I can punch the average person who's trying to assault me in the throat and end the fight there.

I'm not discounting that it's good to be prepared and protect yourself from injury, but punches come naturally to me, I'm not concerned about my hand in the same way I'm not concerned about getting assaulted by many professional fighters or guys who know how to fight. More likely to get attacked by a meth head with a knife at which point most training will be pointless cause I won't be able to hurt him anyway (which you should know if you've ever seen a video of someone high on meth getting shot).

Your thoughts are that its safer to use an overhand palm than an overhand punch, it may well be, but for me and 99% of the population a punch will come more naturally and be more damaging than an attack you don't use often. No amount of training in the world can prepare you for a random attack in the street and I would be incredibly surprised if you used an overhand palm rather than reverting to your more naturally instilled Judo.

As for rugby tackles on concrete, they're still quite common, not many people shatter their knee caps. They're far more likely to bounce their own head off the pavement instead.

 

[j123]

I've been in quite a few life risks outside of it. Ever hunted 120kg boars in the dark? or been stabbed? I have done both (one yesterday and it was nerve racking), the latter being quite the boost of adrenaline to the point I didn't even realise I had a knife stuck in my thumb bone.
I'm fairly certain if it comes down to it, I can punch the average person who's trying to assault me in the throat and end the fight there.

If you did practice a style that focused more on street awareness and defense, prob wouldn't have happened. You most likely would've been able to catch and disarm him or parry the knife with more efficient and quick blasts as opposed to a slow cross or hook.

 

[Woldog]

If you did practice a style that focused more on street awareness and defense, prob wouldn't have happened. You most likely would've been able to catch and disarm him or parry the knife with more efficient and quick blasts as opposed to a slow cross or hook.

I can only live in hope that I one day get attacked by a large breasted woman with a knife to test this technique out

 

[Dexter]

If you did practice a style that focused more on street awareness and defense, prob wouldn't have happened. You most likely would've been able to catch and disarm him or parry the knife with more efficient and quick blasts as opposed to a slow cross or hook.

Finally, completely serious and thoroughly, well-thought-out forum post from Jay! Today, the weather change is on schedule!