Out of pure ignorance: moving up in weight class & muscle gains

[Rubios]

Someone skinny like Max visibly gained muscle to face JG.

But let's say Pereira to HW or Islam to WW.

At that age, being already muscular and after so many years of strength training... is it possible to gain lean muscle that transfers to actual functional strength, and not hypertrophy for the sake of it?

Or it just means cutting much less (Islam) or not cutting at all (Alex), keeping healthier body fat levels that -in fact- improve performance?

Better hormonal environment, joint protection, mass/volume improves strength even if muscle stays the same... you know all that.

Thks for the insight

 

[Kung Fu Kowboy]

Took years to achieve this

 

[Here's Johnny!]

Someone skinny like Max visibly gained muscle to face JG.

But let's say Pereira to HW or Islam to WW.

At that age, being already muscular and after so many years of strength training... is it possible to gain lean muscle that transfers to actual functional strength, and not hypertrophy for the sake of it?

Or it just means cutting much less (Islam) or not cutting at all (Alex), keeping healthier body fat levels that -in fact- improve performance?

Better hormonal environment, joint protection, mass/volume improves strength even if muscle stays the same... you know all that.

Thks for the insight

Diet is more important than strength training... they just add good calories to gain weight usually. They all lift but when you are at a calorie deficit you dont grow

 

[RichardHarrow]

I’m not sure how Roy Jones did it but returning to LHW after the Ruiz fight he just wasn’t the same . GSP always used to cite this as an example of why he wouldn’t move weight classes. Probably why he didn’t fight after Bisping.

 

[Kindjal]

I’m not sure how Roy Jones did it but returning to LHW after the Ruiz fight he just wasn’t the same . GSP always used to cite this as an example of why he wouldn’t move weight classes. Probably why he didn’t fight after Bisping.

He developed colitis from stuffing himself to gain weight . That would make weight cutting a REAL problem

and like the six fingered man says ....

 

[RichardHarrow]

He developed colitis from stuffing himself to gain weight . That would make weight cutting a REAL problem

and like the six fingered man says ....

Who’s that ? As someone who was diagnosed with colitis at 18 and had my whole large intestine removed 4 years later I can tell you now stuffing yourself with food isn’t a cause of colitis.

 

[Rubios]

Diet is more important than strength training... they just add good calories to gain weight usually. They all lift but when you are at a calorie deficit you dont grow

Well, now I feel downright dumb. Thanks for the answer.

Still, I'd like to develop my point. As Alex always seems to stay very lean, I'm addressing Islam specifically.

Out of camp, Islam gets very big.

As long as I know, weight cutting (not only the strict water cut, but the 8-12 weeks prior) is designed to reduce body fat with the least possible interference in muscle mass. Captain obvious to the rescue.

GSP and Firas have reported several times that they kept track of several strength indicators starting camp, at the end of it and right after rehydration (the day following the fight, I guess). And the differences were anecdotical.

So I infer that, if the goal was hypertrophy, 2 months or more of calorie restriction/deficit will impact growth.
But, does it impact functional relative strength?

TL;DR Islam at 170 will/should carry more muscle mass, or just about exactly the same but being more hydrated, with a better hormonal environment, joint protection, and the strength increase derived from size/volume/body fat % and not related at all with musculature?

Thks again.

 

[GolovKing]

I’m not sure how Roy Jones did it but returning to LHW after the Ruiz fight he just wasn’t the same . GSP always used to cite this as an example of why he wouldn’t move weight classes. Probably why he didn’t fight after Bisping.

Gsp didn't fight after bisping because their were no more favorable matchups

 

[RichardHarrow]

Gsp didn't fight after bisping because their were no more favorable matchups

I’m only quoting GSP himself regarding the weight move

 

[Here's Johnny!]

Well, now I feel downright dumb. Thanks for the answer.

Still, I'd like to develop my point. As Alex always seems to stay very lean, I'm addressing Islam specifically.

Out of camp, Islam gets very big.

As long as I know, weight cutting (not only the strict water cut, but the 8-12 weeks prior) is designed to reduce body fat with the least possible interference in muscle mass. Captain obvious to the rescue.

GSP and Firas have reported several times that they kept track of several strength indicators starting camp, at the end of it and right after rehydration (the day following the fight, I guess). And the differences were anecdotical.

So I infer that, if the goal was hypertrophy, 2 months or more of calorie restriction/deficit will impact growth.
But, does it impact functional relative strength?

TL;DR Islam at 170 will/should carry more muscle mass, or just about exactly the same but being more hydrated, with a better hormonal environment, joint protection, and the strength increase derived from size/volume/body fat % and not related at all with musculature?

Thks again.

I would assume that Islam would actually adjust his calorie intake to be about ten pounds heavier on fight night at 170 and would be stronger. Knowing that camp I doubt they decide to be more hydrated.

When you diet for a weight cut you are trying your best to not lose strength or muscle but you always lose some... and when moving up in weight you always gain a little fat.

Islam is a large guy he can easily carry 7 more pounds of muscle without turning into Sean Sherk and binding up.

Someone like Alex would likely be a tiny bit heavier but mostly just hydrated I agree with you.

 

[BroScienceTalkatWork]

my kind of thread

Well think about it like this - it took you decades years to build the muscle you have.. you’ve been training and fighting, doing some supplemental weight training. You’ve built
Your muscles in a very specific way for specific functions

Now if you build 10 pounds in a year; it’s going to be way; way way outside that particular system of musculature

In fact the muscle groups that come on quick are gonna be the ones that neglected - aka the ones that you don’t need for your style of fighting.

And if you get to bodybuilder levels of muscle you will gas. So moving to heavyweight you typically see a mix of fat and muscle

 

[Kindjal]

Who’s that ? As someone who was diagnosed with colitis at 18 and had my whole large intestine removed 4 years later I can tell you now stuffing yourself with food isn’t a cause of colitis.

Glad to hear your own personal experience .

Listen to the several interviews with GSP and his experience with ulcerative colitis , he clearly states that stuffing himself with food lead to him developing colitis.

Some people just are more likely to develop certain health conditions than others . lifestyle , genetic predisposition to certain health conditions all play a part. But feasting on low fiber high fat and high sugar food is terrible for the human body . Fasting is good and what you eat and when during the day is important and enough exercise is vital as well .

 

[188912345]

Out of camp, Islam gets very big.

Islam is not Khabib, he's not eating a lot of McDonald's and drinking coca cola.

I saw an interview where he said he's rarely above 82-83 kgs (180-183 lbs).

 

[RichardHarrow]

Glad to hear your own personal experience .

Listen to the several interviews with GSP and his experience with ulcerative colitis , he clearly states that stuffing himself with food lead to him developing colitis.

Some people just are more likely to develop certain health conditions than others . lifestyle , genetic predisposition to certain health conditions all play a part. But feasting on low fiber high fat and high sugar food is terrible for the human body . Fasting is good and what you eat and when during the day is important and enough exercise is vital as well .

Thanks for your comments. There’s just no evidence pointing to diet as a cause. It can impact but not cause.

 

[Jarilo]

Islam is not Khabib, he's not eating a lot of McDonald's and drinking coca cola.

I saw an interview where he said he's rarely above 82-83 kgs (180-183 lbs).

Thats so crazy to me, i went from 95 kg to now 84 ( 7 months,fasting), i plan to be around 81kg... That said, i am same height as Islam, and pretty lean, muscular, but to drop to 70 kg its fucking madness.
I know on fight day he must be around 80kg, but still.