Otto von Bismarck

[Pseudo Sane]

How come he did not have his own Holocaust? He was in same position as Hitler. And probably better military strategist. I am not saying he should have but just because . . . . .

Because he wasn't a fucking maniac, probably.

Hating the Jews was de rigeur in Europe until 1946.

As far as I can recall, there was nothing in the level of the systematized racial animus against Jews in any of the German states until after the Great War. Not that they were popular before, of course, but Bismarck was more preoccupied with being the greatest statesman of the past 200 years than with trying to kill the Jews.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Then by the time he died

I only recently realized how far Germans were living east into what is now considered Poland. I always heard of the city of Danzig or Gdansk in Poland use to be a very German city, but from your map it is like Germans lived all the way along the coast to the Baltics.

 

[RawHawg]

Quaker Oats. It's the right thing to do and a damn good way to do it!

 

[Pseudo Sane]

Busmar

I only recently realized how far Germans were living east into what is now considered Poland. I always heard of the city of Danzig or Gdansk in Poland use to be a very German city, but from your map it is like Germans lived all the way along the coast to the Baltics.

There were no 'Germans'. Bismarck created Germany (this is an oversimplification, but basically true; while there were a lot of German-speaking countries, they were only 'German' in the same way that citizens of the USA, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are all 'English'. Bismarck was instrumental in creating a German identity.)

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Busmar


There were no 'Germans'. Bismarck created Germany (this is an oversimplification, but basically true; while there were a lot of German-speaking countries, they were only 'German' in the same way that citizens of the USA, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are all 'English'. Bismarck was instrumental in creating a German identity.)

Then what do you call those people living in the section of the map? I believe called Brandenburg that stretches so far into what we now call Kielbasa Land.

 

[Doughbelly]

I would put Falco slightly ahead of Hitler. Both are Austrians, but still.

An Austrian is just a redneck German.

With a sense of humor. A redneck sense of humor.

 

[Pseudo Sane]

Then what do you call those people living in the section of the map? I believe called Brandenburg that stretches so far into what we now call Kielbasa Land.

I'm no Prussian expert, but probably Prussians, on account of how they lived in Prussia.

Okay, I kid, I know there was a difference between the German-speaking citizens and the rest, but my larger point was that the idea of Germany as a cohesive state was something that Bismarck made a reality.

 

[KOQ24]

I only recently realized how far Germans were living east into what is now considered Poland. I always heard of the city of Danzig or Gdansk in Poland use to be a very German city, but from your map it is like Germans lived all the way along the coast to the Baltics.

Historically, Poland had no access to the sea until the German Reich lost WW1.The Baltic coast line up to Königsberg (today Kaliningrad) was German (Prussian).

 

[KOQ24]

I'm no Prussian expert, but probably Prussians, on account of how they lived in Prussia.

Okay, I kid, I know there was a difference between the German-speaking citizens and the rest, but my larger point was that the idea of Germany as a cohesive state was something that Bismarck made a reality.

It was governed by Brandenburg-Prussia.
The Territories in today's Poland were Prussia (main city Danzig/Gdansk), Pomerania (main city Stettin/Szeczin) & Silesia (main city Breslau/Wroclaw)


pre-WW1

pre-WW2

 

[MadSquabbles500]

It was governed by Brandenburg-Prussia.
The Territories in today's Poland were Prussia (main city Danzig/Gdansk), Pomerania (main city Stettin/Szeczin) & Silesia (main city Breslau/Wroclaw)


pre-WW1

pre-WW2

Was there always Poles living in the area along the coast that is now Poland but once belong to Purssian, and the the Poles there were being ruled by Purssians?

Or did the Poles push all the Purssians outfirst?

 

[KOQ24]

Was there always Poles living in the area along the coast that is now Poland but once belong to Purssian, and the the Poles there were being ruled by Purssians?

Or did the Poles push all the Purssians outfirst?

There was a polish minority within, most working in agriculture.
The first big wave of polish immigrants came in the late 1800s when the German Empire needed workers for it's booming economy esp. in the steel & coal industry

 

[Organic Damage]

Why can't all War Room incursions into Mayberry be like this?

War Warberry!

 

[loyalyolayal]

Was there always Poles living in the area along the coast that is now Poland but once belong to Purssian, and the the Poles there were being ruled by Purssians?

Or did the Poles push all the Purssians outfirst?

I blame Spurrta.

 

[JayE]

Rothschilds? Wow he is a tin foiler who only watches infowars and probably an anti-Semite too

Well, he was a Junker, so yeah, he was a massive anti-Semite. The entire Junker class, much like a lot of the other landed nobility throughout Europe, were constantly fearful of the devaluation of land and so-called "real value" and the rise of money and liquid assets. That whole fear is arguably the bedrock of modern anti-Semitism and nowhere else in Europe was it more present than among the Prussian Junkers (maybe among some of the Russian nobility).

It's a little different than the anti-Semitism of the volkisch movement in Germany or other ultra-nationalist movements in other places in Europe (which contributed massively to popularity of the Nazis and movements like them in the 20th century), though, as that anti-Semitism tended to stress the Jews as a people without their own state and therefore constantly envious of the Germans (of the French, Brits, etc.) and constantly working to subvert the state. These were also more bottom-up movements when compared with the Junker brand of anti-Semitism.

 

[IIIIIIII]

Great thread!

Otto von Bismarck was brilliant and is one of the architects of the modern world. Bismarck essentially created Germany, and with it, the well studied issue in IR political science of the German Problem - a unified German, due to it's size, geography and strength of its industry will always come to dominate Europe.

The systems that von Bismarck created or was instrumental in codifying spread throughout the world. The education and legal systems of much of the world and particularly East Asia are based on Bismarck's ideals. If Germany had stuck with the plans for the future as Bismarck had outlined, there would never have been a WWI (as it happened), thus no WWII and Hitler.

Bismarck is the most influential German in history, right under Hitler.

not saying bismarck was insignificant, because he was very important to germany and how it was during his time. but we should take into account that it was napoleon who actually established the modern european state. it was napoleon who enacted the napoleonic code, which spread throughout europe and the world, and why over forty countries to this day still use it as the basic for their laws. he was the protector of the confederation of the rhine, which set borders for the modern german state. napoleon ended feudalism, and inspired revolution throughout europe to ouster the royalty of europe that controlled most of the continent. if there is someone who isn't spoken of enough when it comes to the establishment of the modern world, it is napoleon.

 

[Guestx]

The Americans are a very lucky people. They're bordered to the north and south by weak neighbors, and to the east and west by fish.

LOL

 

[JayE]

Great thread!

Otto von Bismarck was brilliant and is one of the architects of the modern world. Bismarck essentially created Germany, and with it, the well studied issue in IR political science of the German Problem - a unified German, due to it's size, geography and strength of its industry will always come to dominate Europe.

The systems that von Bismarck created or was instrumental in codifying spread throughout the world. The education and legal systems of much of the world and particularly East Asia are based on Bismarck's ideals. If Germany had stuck with the plans for the future as Bismarck had outlined, there would never have been a WWI (as it happened), thus no WWII and Hitler.

Bismarck is the most influential German in history, right under Hitler.

He was a brilliant politician (the only other individual of the 19th century who had as much impact on the world was Napoleon), but the world order that he mostly spearheaded was always going to be massively dependent on him being alive to maintain it with all his politicking and skullduggery. It's hard to see Prussian militarism aided by the stupidity of Wilhelm II, the clusterfuck that was Austria-Hungary, colonial rivalries, and all the other ultra-nationalist tendencies at play in Europe being permanently held down by Bismarck, or any other system that Bismarck could potentially set up.

I'm not saying World War One and everything that followed was inevitable, but there were much greater structural forces at play both inside and outside of Germany that one individual wouldn't be able to greatly shift.

 

[Doughbelly]

not saying bismarck was insignificant, because he was very important to germany and how it was during his time. but we should take into account that it was napoleon who actually established the modern european state. it was napoleon who enacted the napoleonic code, which spread throughout europe and the world, and why over forty countries to this day still use it as the basic for their laws. he was the protector of the confederation of the rhine, which set borders for the modern german state. napoleon ended feudalism, and inspired revolution throughout europe to ouster the royalty of europe that controlled most of the continent. if there is someone who isn't spoken of enough when it comes to the establishment of the modern world, it is napoleon.

Wh0's talking about Napolean? Napolean's not a German.

And yes, while the Napoleonic civil code (itself based on Roman law) was the basis of the German civil code, countries that modernized at the turn of the century straight up cribbed from Bismarck, not Napoleon. Japan - Germanic. Korea - Germanic. Taiwan - Germanic. Everything east of Alsace-Lorraine - Germanic.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

So are east germans today still called Prussians. Bavarians are in the south, but what about the people of the Rhineland, or Westphalia, or the area near Denmark? What are they all called?

 

[loyalyolayal]

So are east germans today still called Prussians. Bavarians are in the south, but what about the people of the Rhineland, or Westphalia, or the area near Denmark? What are they all called?

Breeding ground.