opinions needed, teachinmg a 3-1/2 year old

[rooku]

I'd like to hear the purpose of your desire to teach your child these techniques. A person that small doesn't have to strength to slap a submission on someone who can actually hurt her or would actually want to hurt her. The best thing that can happen is that another 3-5 year old and her will be playing and then if it gets physical she will not get hurt. That's the best thing that can come from it. The worst possible outcome is that she kills another kid and grows up all kinds of fucked up because she murdered someone at 3 years old, and you are sitting your ass in prison because of what you showed her.

With all of that said, i strongly support teaching your children JiuJitsu...with this caveat: Teach them no submissions until they are old enough to realize what happens when you use them. Judge for yourself when this is, but i can't see it happening before the age of 7 or 8.

I want my children to be able to protect themselves in any situation, but i have to consider what those situations might actually be. The possibility that your kid will ever be attacked by a child molester or something is very slim. The idea that at that age she has the strength to pull off a triangle or armlock against someone trying to offend her is absurd. She will just get herself hurt FAR worse.

For a living, i manage a group home for teenage sexual offenders. I can guarantee you that what she is learning will do her absolutely no good in self defense against these perpetrators until she is strong enough to put some force behind the moves. Think about it: can she really make you tap if you actually give her the choke or armlock? NO. You can just fall on her and she will let go and break a few bones. I can also guarantee you that if a molester tries to hurt her, he will do so whether or not she knows a choke or armlock. He will be undeterred by her attempts because she lacks the strength to use them.

This is a recipe for disaster. Teach her about the positions if you want her to get a headstart in the sport. Any worthless fuck can pick up the submissions later, it's the positioning that really counts. Teach her about balance, base, leg control, leverage, etc. If you care THAT much, teach her simple stuff like elbow escapes and passing the guard, or the Upa bridge roll. Teach her sweeps. Leave the takedowns until she is maybe 6 or so. Then work in the subs when she hits 8.

I hope that you find a way to take her focus off of these techniques by teaching her the positions/techniques discussed in the paragraph above. If not, i pray that she doesn't injure someone thinking that it's just a game.

Please take this seriously. Someone else's child could get hurt.

edit: i don't want this to come across as if i don't think you are taking this seriously. You wouldn't have asked if you didnt' care. You didn't come on here bragging, you posted with a question. I'm sure you will do what is right. I hope that my post helps you make your decisions. (And i look forward to seeing your child compete in a few years.)

 

[Terrier]

No, I do understand what you were trying to say. But basing the idea that teaching the choke will kill someone, on a case that 99.9% of kids don't do doesn't really work.

You've prooved you don't get it twice now(simply saying yes i do then ignoring my clarification doesn't count), but it's a moot point anyway as I retracted the statement on my own, therefore i'll just ignore anymore of your trolling on this matter.

Rookus system of gradually introducing things sounds like a fair plan and well thought out - i'd still go with a reputable Judo school though as they're a time tested formula for kids, plus learning in a more social atmosphere would probably be better for a child.

 

[Sanni Wehbe]

Please wait until she is 5. Lots of kids suffocate each other on accident without knowing.

 

[The Technical]

Oh man, can't wait till I get some kids of my own, kicking ass and taking names...in preschool!

 

[Bubble Boy]

No. No. No.
My kids have watched me in judo, and they love to wrestle because of it, but they certainly don't know any submissions. I just have them pin one another. It's actually hilarious and humbling to watch (they pick up stuff so quickly).
But 3 years old and the RNC? Dude, SNAP OUT OF IT! You're taking this shit to seriously.
Your daughter should be in ballet and swim lessons for crying out loud, not training for submission grappling.
My humble opinion.

 

[phenomfan1529]

damn, I learned the armbar from the mount when I was 16. lol

 

[Dedicado]

3 is too young to understand to use this as a " last resort ", she is just too young to grasp this concept. I have a little daughter too, and I love to see a Dad teach their kids- it is a great and rewarding experience for both of you. Instead of theaching her about " last resort " tell her she can " only play-fight with Daddy. "This still gets the message across that she needs to do this in the appropriate place, but in a way she can understand. Also, you might wanna put a Gi on her or another " special " type of protective gear for her to play fight, then you can tell her " Always use the Gi to playfight. " This is another way of ensuring she doesn't beat on other kids, if she doesn't have a Gi or Gloves handy and Daddy isn't there, then she can't play fight. Instead of saying " Don't " try the " Always " word instead: " Always use a mouth piece" is better than " Never fight without a mouth piece." Especially for a young child. Good luck bro! And keep at it!

 

[Dedicado]

BTW, don't let these guys get too down on you man! If you use the " Always with Daddy" or " Only when you're with me " then I feel it is fine. No child should be playing unsupervised with another child, wehter it's at day care or in your home. If you have taught her to RNC, and she can really do it, you must supervise her around other kids, but I feel you are a good father and a good father always watches out for kids, even if they are not his own.
Teach her the " Only with Daddy " it's the best thing to do, make sure your daughter's day-care is on board with your desire to have her Not engage in any kind of play-fighting at day-care, and tell other parents that aswell. Seriously bro, I don't think you are raising a mini-murderer by teaching them subs, but make sure you teach her restraint, mercy and to tell an adult when someone tries to fight her instead of fighting back. Teaching them sprawls and pins is all I will do with my baby untill she has learnt restraint and mercy, then I will teach her subs. Peace bro, be safe and have fun with your daughter.

 

[VampireMonk]

just tell her not to bully anyone and not to show off or act tough,
self defense is no problem.

I think if she loves it, your teaching her well.

 

[registered]

You taught a 3 1/2 year old RNC? Are you fucking stupid? I mean, I'm sorry, I know I am a new guy around here, but that is possibly one of the most irresponsible things I have ever read. Kids that age do not even have the right muscle development to deal with any kind of choke, and it wouldn't be unthinkable for her to slap a RNC on a kid her own age and crush their windpipe.

Teaching kids that young how to throw, punch, kick and pin is fine. Teaching a kid that young submissions, especially chokes, is absolutely ignorant and irresponsible. You're wife is right to be on your ass and obviously she should be on it a lot more than she is.

I don't know wher your from, but you need to keep in mind that if she ever hurt someone (Or worse) you could stand to lose custody of her. In the kind of work that I do, I am a mandatory reporter, and if I ever saw someone teaching a 3 1/2 year old how to choke someone, I would have go to my supervisor.

It's dangerous and stupid.

absolutely right

you DON'T teach chokes or armbar stuff untill 14 y.o.

you are fucking out of you mind, it's like unleashing a pitbull, a kid has not understanding of what he is doing (just think what "grown up" can do)

can you imagine an armbar made in anger? not to talk about a choke?

 

[Eric Loewer]

Rock on, dude!
This story does have a moral, I promise.
Get ready, I'm about to blow off some steam...
I've read everybody's comments, and I'm only 18, so keep in mind that I'm not the best authority on this, but...
What you're doing is cool. Teaching your daughter how to defend herself at a young age does sound like a nice way of spending time together. Just don't over do it. I had a Tae Kwon Do teacher whom taught his daughter this stuff beginning at age 3 and by the time I joined the school, when I was 16, she was a 6 year old black belt. I even had to bow to her at times. She did not like it. She was burnt. I was doing my form one day and I forgot the next step. All of a sudden, Kimberly said, "It's this," and she just did the next moves of a different belt, that she hadn't done in months, right where I left off, mid-process. Poor thing. :icon_sad: She was just a little girl that should have been playing Candy Land and Chutes-and-Ladders. Not helping teenagers with their martial arts problems. She did not want to be in that building, all day being a corner man with nothing else to do. She really just wanted to go home and watch Sponge Bob or something. Anyway...
When I was in the 3rd grade I had a neighbor who was in the 2nd grade and we'd get in arguments and what-not and I'd always beat him up and he'd get pay back by breaking all the Ninja Turtle action figures inside of my club house. Then he'd get his older sister to beat me up and that really #-^-(-*-s with a person's mind, years later, knowing that every week when you were little you got beat up by a girl. I became a laughing target for my older brother who thought that it was hillarious, and my dad always criticized me about fighting and getting beat up by a girl.
So one day, I just got (expletive deleted)'ed off :icon_evil and I dragged her around the 1/2 acre back yard by her hair and ripped it out and made a bald spot on her head and felt like a million bucks until again my dad took her side and said, "Don't beat up girls!!!" (Expletive deleted)!!! "He's unhappy if I lose, and unhappy if I win," I thought. I was really lost. I dunno???
5th grade: WCW pro wrestling was popular. This kid in my class tried to give me a Diamond Cutter (grab my head, slam my face) on a chair during lunch. I grabbed him by the ear and jumped/dropped down. Either he was going with me or only his ear was. He chose the first one. Looking back I wish I ripped his ear off. Stupid teachers couldn't even bother to sit in the room with us for 1/2 an hour just to make sure that we're safe 5 days a week!!!???
6th grade during school hours me and another boy got into a shoving match in the lunch line because he bumped into me, and all of a sudden, WHAP, he punches me and I'm TKO'ed and down for the count. In the 6th grade I didn't know what a fist was or how to throw a punch. He did. I lost. :icon_cry2 Principle's office. Both suspended for the rest of the day. Mom's (expletive deleted)!!! But understands and sides with me because we both knew for months that the kid was an (expletive deleted). He called her fat a few months before behind her back. He was puttin' my momma down to my face. Wouldn't do it in front of her though. Good choice. He don't wanna know what my crazy momma would do. I was grounded for the weekend. He still got to go to Skate World that night, even though he started the one punch fight. (Expletive deleted).
Anyway, teach your girl to defend herself properly. I wish my parents did.
P.S. That guy before was right, about putting your daughter into swim classes, too. I didn't learn how to swim until I was 16. Nearly drown on several occasions growing up. I'll leave those stories for another day.

 

[DMcKayBJJ]

I agree with all the fellow fathers in this thread, and your wife. You should not be teaching your 4 year old daughter how to maim or choke.
I think it's fine, though, to teach her self-esteem, and that it's not OK to let anyone hurt her or touch her in a bad way. If another kid hits her, she should hit back. If an adult or older kid tries to harm her, she should understand that that is wrong and then tell Daddy (at which point YOU get to have the fun in kicking some ass to defend her!).
Maybe when she's older, like 8 or 9, it might be OK to let her start BJJ or similar martial arts at a local academy. She might like it. Little kids tend to like gymnastics and rolling around and burning up all their energy on the mats.
In short, we all know that fighting technique is no substitute for intelligence/street smarts/common sense, especially when it comes to self-defense. Teaching her right from wrong, self-confidence, and the sense to remove herself from possibly harmful situations, will go a lot farther for her in life than teaching her armbars and RNC's.

 

[DBLang]

I think a lot of people are over reacting a bit.

I think you should take a look at CBJJ rules for kids. Hold off on teaching any more submissions until she is at least five or so, but keep teaching her sweeps and stuff. Submissions are easy to learn anyway, and she doesn't need them at three. Anyway, here are the rules for kids in CBJJ tournaments. A lot of the stuff goes without saying (heelhooks and shit like that). Use good judgement and make sure she knows it can really hurt someone.

FROM 04 THROUGH 12:

SLAM FROM THE GUARD

BICEPS LOCK

WRIST LOCK

TRIANGLE PULLING THE HEAD

FOOT LOCKS OF ANY KIND

KNEE LOCK, LEG LOCK

CERVICAL LOCK (ANY KIND)

FRONTAL NECK CRANK

EZEQUIEL

CALF LOCK

OMOPLATA ( SHOULDER LOCK)

FRONTAL GUILLOTINE

SCISSORS TAKEDOWN

HEEL HOOK

 

[VampireMonk]

I saw some young kids in a BJJ tourney
and they were under 10, and they did all the moves,
very good technique, I was suprised.
I dont see the problem.

 

[VampireMonk]

the problem is when these kids compete in a tournament they often jack each other
up like the adults do, and the kids cry like a baby!!!
I felt sorry for them. but for self defense why not.

 

[possenti]

Alright, guys...

It entirely depends upon the kid and their personality. For an average active 3 y.o. boy, I don't think I would teach submissions. For a shy unaggressive girl, it could be a "fun playtime with Daddy" - only if it is made clear that it's ONLY with Daddy.

When my daughter was 5, I taught her mount and guard first. I'd take her down easily, and have her practice putting me in the guard as quickly as possible. She learned the sweep and how to get the mount. From there, I showed her the armbar. Later, I added the RNC. I realized early that she had an interest in martial arts. At 7, I enrolled her in TaeKwonDo.

She's 12 now, and she has yet to sub or strike anyone out of anger. She just got her black belt in TKD, and she's planning on taking a break from it to go to BJJ class with me. There's a blue belt girl there who wants to teach her. As for ballet lessons, soccer and other pastimes - she thinks they're all "gay". That's my girl...

Keep at it, but keep discipline in your teaching also. No one here knows your daughter better than you, and therefore should not tell you how to raise her.

 

[Mark Allen]

no submission or CHOKES to kids that young. I own a school that started in 1968 and has trained 1000's of kids, wrestling, punching, striking, throwing are all good self defense for them. Save subs and chokes for latter.

 

[guardpasser]

there has been a lot of great and left wing comments.
i appreciate all of them
1. the arm bar and ankle lock are done with me and her only, she does not like to do them with anyone else
she could not correctly apply one any way, its more like play bjj
2. the rnc-the main topic. she understands that is not to be done to anyone, she cannot do it as it is suppose to be done, so i feel fine with it. i should hav eposted that i taught her to do it on the chin , but i forgot , so that is my error in my original post.
3. when i teach kids classes from time to time, i do not show subs until the children are a lot older, as in teens, i do not know those children or what they may or may not be responsible with.
4. my daughter is very very smart for her age, she sees the techniques on tv, and in videos i have, she doesnt like the chokes and says they are scary. so i feel fine, we dont practice it either.
as for the ankle lock, she doesnt have the leverage to catch any one with it, so dont worry.

i should have been a little more descriptive in my original post.
again thanks for all the posts, i value all opinions.

 

[devante]

i think what ur doing is coo; you know your kid better than any of us out here, plain and simple. I myself am a father and i know my child better than anyone on here, period; while i have not drilled my daughter in any techniques she began to pickup on them after watching me shadow box repeatedly or seein some mma tape or boxing match...
So every once in awhile i sit her down and taught her to keep her hands up and to jab and to throw a 1/2 or a short flurry of rights and lefts; we also wrestle, i take her down and she scrambles away from me and spins out or works on using her legs to keep me off so she can get away. I don't drill this... we just play and when she says she wants to do something else...then we do.


I am sure u educate ur daughter and have her signed up for all sorts of diff activities; so i am positive u are not raising a bully or fighting machine, given the fact u even posed this question shows u care. I think u can never be too early in teaching a child self def; esp a girl, they might not need it now, but most likely they will at some point. If not against some guy def against some other girl, nowadays girls really go all out and fight. An i for one would be crushed if my child got beat up or picked on or bullied cus she did not know how to or feel confident in her ability to defend herself; i have been there and that fear lack of confidence is crippiling and can affect u in other areas of ur life. So thanks for being a good dad and actually giving a damn.

i see everyone's points and share their concerns; but i know u know ur daughter and we can only speculate, this is not a kid in a class. It's ur daughter so u have a much better feel for what she will and won't do... Same as i know my kid better than people on this board do.

An just to explain the value of having self def at a young age; My daughter is almost three and she is bi racial, before we started "playing" one of the older girls/boys picked on her and pushed her around.. Later on..prob after she was here 4 a month or so she went back and the kid tried the same thing the little boy shoved her to the ground and my daughter said don't puch me. When the kid tried it again my daughter popped him and the kid was like in shock; an when he took a step 4ward my daughter shifted her weight...got into her stance and put her hands up. The kid stared at her..then backed off and left her alone and has not messed w/her sense. No i did not see it; but this is wht i was told by one of the people who work their, which makes no sense cus they did not step int.

Either way my point is even at this young age my child was in a position where she had to protect herself and i am just glad that she had some kind of idea of what to do and how to come across; not saying tht kid would have really hurt her. But he could of..an he didn't cus she seemed like she was ready to fight and was not gonna let him run over her.

do wht u feel is the best she is ur child and ur responsibility, none of will be there to protect her or assist her or be responsible for her if she gets hurt or hurts someone; so u do what u think is best and leave it at that.

 

[Dedicado]

Young kids should learn submissions! By "young" I mean 9 or 10 years old, maybe even as young as 7 if they are responsible about never fighting at school. I don't think it is okay to hit back someone who hits you, I know a lot of parents disagree: My reason is that most schools will end up suspending both kids, not just one- it's standard policy here where I live. It is okay, however, to throw a kid that is teeing off on you, then running away to tell an adult who is responsible.