Open Borders Day

[Jukai]

That's just because "libertarian" has been co-opted by Paulites and tea partiers, who are usually not libertarians at all, but feel it gives them more cred to say they are than admit they are just conservatives with a dose of isolationism.

Immigration is a very big issue for libertarians. It is one of the ultimate instances where government infringes on someone's liberty.

Don't know if I agree. You seem to be talking more on the leftist-anarchist side of things.

 

[ncordless]

Don't know if I agree. You seem to be talking more on the leftist-anarchist side of things.

What is your concept of libertarianism?

The link I posted in the OP is to an opinion piece by noted libertarian scholar Ilya Somin. He's about as much of a true libertarian as you can get, and is hardly left wing.

 

[Jukai]

What is your concept of libertarianism?

The link I posted in the OP is to an opinion piece by noted libertarian scholar Ilya Somin. He's about as much of a true libertarian as you can get, and is hardly left wing.

I just seen libertarianism as very citizen-centric. If you aren't a citizen, they don't really seem to give a shit about you. Hence, no aid money, no bombs, just isolate us from the rest of the world.

 

[oldshadow]

So your libertarianism extends only to those who have similar libertarian beliefs? That's awful convenient.


And if you believe that the majority of people coming to this country legally or illegally do so because of our fabulous welfare state, you might want to brush up on the topic.

I'm not a libertarian, I just understood they were all for no to very little government interference and support. Which would mean almost all welfare would be private.

Also no money or insurance would mean no treatment. How many anchor babies parents collect some form of support.

Report: LA County to pay $650 million in welfare benefits to illegal immigrant parents

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/17/r...s-to-illegal-immigrant-parents/#ixzz2wFsh20fu

Most come looking for work but it's not always there.

 

[ncordless]

I just seen libertarianism as very citizen-centric. If you aren't a citizen, they don't really seem to give a shit about you. Hence, no aid money, no bombs, just isolate us from the rest of the world.

Nah dude, that ain't libertarianism. That's isolationism (see No Nothings), which also has a long history in American politics. Libertarianism is about maximizing individual freedom.

 

[Rico]

Well that just stinks of the one world government agenda.

I'm pretty sure you link every single thread you comment in to the one world government agenda.....without actually linking anything to the one world government agenda.

 

[crowded]

Ahh, at least try to argue your completely pretzeled logic instead of spitting out a white belt post.

lol. You seem to be characterizing (in a belittling way) logic that I never presented. That's impressive.

I guess I thought it was made clear by the prior responses that your post fails to account for any context. The system we have isn't a Libertarian one so taking a non-Libertarian position in light of the system we do have would be a good example of compromising due to pragmatism. Is that what you're criticizing? Pragmatism.

 

[ncordless]

lol. You seem to be characterizing (in a belittling way) logic that I never presented. That's impressive.

I guess I thought it was made clear by the prior responses that your post fails to account for any context. The system we have isn't a Libertarian one so taking a non-Libertarian position in light of the system we do have would be a good example of compromising due to pragmatism. Is that what you're criticizing? Pragmatism.

No not at all. I love pragmatism. I find it a much better basis for policy than libertarianism. I am glad to know that pragmatism trumps libertarianism.

Libertarianism is good, except when it results in policies I don't like, then it is bad. Very pragmatic indeed.

 

[crowded]

No not at all. I love pragmatism. I find it a much better basis for policy than libertarianism. I am glad to know that pragmatism trumps libertarianism.

Libertarianism is good, except when it results in policies I don't like, then it is bad. Very pragmatic indeed.

Great. So hopefully you see how the context of the situation puts people in a position where principles get compromised no matter what. Hence this not being the topic to use as a springboard for Libertarian hypocrisy.

It's far less conflicting than R's being against welfare to people but for welfare to corporations or D's being against the death penalty but will fight with all their might to preserve abortion rights.

 

[IDL]

Yup. You know those hardcore libertarians and their well-known association with the NWO cabal.


You're on the right track, just need to dig a little deeper to find the answer . . . IF YOU DARE

I'm sure the very top of all major political movements are all 'players'.

The people are well meaning.

 

[IDL]

I'm pretty sure you link every single thread you comment in to the one world government agenda.....without actually linking anything to the one world government agenda.

yeah well.. It's kinda painful to watch it all play out. It's like already knowing the end of the movie.

 

[Rico]

yeah well.. It's kinda painful to watch it all play out.

Yes. Yes it is. Really painful.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

In America, every day is open border day!

Then libertarians (aka, 75% of conservatives) should be thrilled.

I mean, individuals traveling thousands of miles, braving all sorts of danger just to better themselves and look out for their material self-interest. Offering their labor out in the open market for the best offer. Very entrepreneurial-sy.

But no, I never see or hear these far-right wingers supporting, say, driver's licenses for the undocumented (would make it easier for them to physically put their labor out on the market place) or for amnesty (illegality puts huge barriers in both potential workers' abilities to voluntarily seek work, and employers' abilities to hire whomever they feel will do the best work)

But hey, hypocrisy and fantasy is what libertarian-type right-wing thought is based on.

 

[Calmete]

Then libertarians (aka, 75% of conservatives) should be thrilled.

I mean, individuals traveling thousands of miles, braving all sorts of danger just to better themselves and look out for their material self-interest. Offering their labor out in the open market for the best offer. Very entrepreneurial-sy.

But no, I never see or hear these far-right wingers supporting, say, driver's licenses for the undocumented (would make it easier for them to physically put their labor out on the market place) or for amnesty (illegality puts huge barriers in both potential workers' abilities to voluntarily seek work, and employers' abilities to hire whomever they feel will do the best work)

But hey, hypocrisy and fantasy is what libertarian-type right-wing thought is based on.

So you think libertarians (in the context of modern day Americans) support lawless society. Lol.

 

[TeTe]

Immigration is a very big issue for libertarians. It is one of the ultimate instances where government infringes on someone's liberty.

Really, because most libertarians are proponents of big business and part of operating a business can include paying low wage earners. If the statement "immigrants take the jobs that nobody else wants" rings true, then it would make sense to want immigrants?

Obviously you know very little about libertarians. Did you not hear Gary Johnson support immigration in 2012?

Like Ben said, a real concern is who is paying taxes and who is contributing to propping up those who do not pay them. Ideally, I say ditch income tax altogether, but as long as people like you are I have to, then everyone else should be.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Obviously you know very little about libertarians. Did you not hear Gary Johnson support immigration in 2012?

Like Ben said, a real concern is who is paying taxes and who is contributing to propping up those who do not pay them. Ideally, I say ditch income tax altogether, but as long as people like you are I have to, then everyone else should be.

Great, then libertarians should be in the front lines of the push for amnesty.

Want to turn the massive hordes of illegals gobbling up welfare into tax-paying, "productive" members of society? Legalize them and watch them have to pay taxes just like the rest. Also, legality will increase their earning power (more money) and increase their educational attainment (more money).

But no, libertarians are hardly ever outspoken about amnesty. All that big free-market talk shrivels down and they become neocon statists that want big government to either kick out all the illegals or continue to keep them from seeking full opportunities for economic self-improvement.

 

[TeTe]

Great, then libertarians should be in the front lines of the push for amnesty.

Want to turn the massive hordes of illegals gobbling up welfare into tax-paying, "productive" members of society? Legalize them and watch them have to pay taxes just like the rest. Also, legality will increase their earning power (more money) and increase their educational attainment (more money).

But no, libertarians are hardly ever outspoken about amnesty. All that big free-market talk shrivels down and they become neocon statists that want big government to either kick out all the illegals or continue to keep them from seeking full opportunities for economic self-improvement.

I don't disagree with you, in fact I think your post about open market on labor was spot on.

 

[James Keith]

But no, libertarians are hardly ever outspoken about amnesty.

Sounds to me like you're talking out of you ass here.

Libertarian organizations I'm aware of are fairly hardcore in favor of open borders.

http://reason.org/areas/topic/immigration

http://www.cato.org/research/immigration

 

[Possum Jenkins]

I don't disagree with you, in fact I think your post about open market on labor was spot on.

Unfortunately, it's you, Gary Johnson and a couple of dudes over at Reason that see it this way from the libertarian camp.

You're vastly outnumbered by the neocons who only claim libertarianism to distance themselves from the shame that being identified as a Republican brings these days.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Sounds to me like you're talking out of you ass here.

Libertarian organizations I'm aware of are fairly hardcore in favor of open borders.

http://reason.org/areas/topic/immigration

http://www.cato.org/research/immigration

Lol. This is what I mean.

A few guys like this have no sway over the conservative/Republican base. At Republican rallies, this point of view is completely, totally absent. Only a couple of unknown, small-time Republican congressmen support amnesty.