On the Frequency of Accidental Fouls

[Mr Joyboy]

Point 2) reminds me of my other demand: more 10-10 rounds!

Imagine a boring round where the only notable strike was a foul - these are common recently. Judges give 10-9s at random, often rewarding the offender because the fouled dude became tentative (since he can't see or since his balls hurt). With my approach it would be a 10-9 for the fouled. Fair.

Pretty simple way to fix the issue. Penalize the first time and every time. Guarantee fighters stop reaching out with outstretched fingers, are more careful with inside kicks, are more mindful of fence grabbing, and whatever other fouls. Just like any other sport, you don’t get freebies because you didn’t mean to foul. Intent doesn’t make it not illegal.

Don't you guys think this would cause way more draws, and way more cheesy wins by penalty? Imagine a number one contender fight getting drawn, or a guy getting a title shot off penalty points.

It's natural in the abstract to think "what's fair is fair and that's how it should be", but I think the problems it'd cause for the sport would be huge.

Perhaps a yellow card/fine system would apply a meaningful penalty without affecting the competition too much.

 

[Pizza Werewolf]

They just need to start giving people penalty shots for these infractions.
One free punch then they go right back to fighting.

 

[Mr Joyboy]

They just need to start giving people penalty shots for these infractions.
One free punch then they go right back to fighting.

After the fight there's a roshambo bonus round where the fighter who committed fewer penalties gets to go first.

 

[sdpdude9]

Don't you guys think this would cause way more draws, and way more cheesy wins by penalty? Imagine a number one contender fight getting drawn, or a guy getting a title shot off penalty points.

It's natural in the abstract to think "what's fair is fair and that's how it should be", but I think the problems it'd cause for the sport would be huge.

Perhaps a yellow card/fine system would apply a meaningful penalty without affecting the competition too much.

I believe you would see fighters be much more careful about committing the fouls with the steep penalty. You see guys be more careful once a point is deducted now. It’s a great deterrent.

But I could get on board with a fine system as well. But problem there is some guys may not care about losing some money to get that little advantage or needed breather.

I don’t know that there is a perfect solution, but getting away with multiple infractions with no penalty like it is now is definitely a problem.

 

[mirko>anyone]

Don't you guys think this would cause way more draws, and way more cheesy wins by penalty? Imagine a number one contender fight getting drawn, or a guy getting a title shot off penalty points.

It's natural in the abstract to think "what's fair is fair and that's how it should be", but I think the problems it'd cause for the sport would be huge.

Perhaps a yellow card/fine system would apply a meaningful penalty without affecting the competition too much.

Easily the best solution in my opinion. Given that fights are only 3 rounds mostly, taking a point has an immense impact on the end result, and that also not taking into account the context of the kick. Targets move, inside kicks are more common, the sheer volume of kicks is up, etc. Point being, they aren’t going away. A financial penalty makes most sense, but truthfully I think The system as is, While far from perfect, is best. I hate hindering technique because guys are terrified of a harsh penalty, so if it’s just a “grazer” or completely inadvertent, a warning is fine.

I have a lot lower tolerance for the pokes. They are usually a result of carelessness or ill intent. Weren’t PRIDE gloves slightly bent to create a natural curve of fingers? An idea worth entertaining. I’ve heard they don’t hinder grappling anymore than a normal glove as well.

 

[MCS]

None of the guys, or very few, from back then used the distance pawing Jones does. Tall guys from then like Chuck, Anderson and GSP threw straight down the pipe with closed fists. More clean, less bullshit. Also less use of distance-only as a weapon. Anderson was the best guy from range. But he didn't jab you to a decision from range. Moved a bit, then sniped.

I think the groin shots come from more use of high calf and thigh kicks. Not that much to bend the rules. Back then there weren't that many low kickers. The Chute Boxe guys were the prominent ones. They used classic MT lower lows. Aldo did those too. Diabate, Hardonk and some others. More brawling back then.

The rear straight to the body is rare. Bas used to do it. Cro Cop a bit. But it was and still is more kicks from range and hooks up close.

 

[Mr Joyboy]

None of the guys, or very few, from back then used the distance pawing Jones does. Tall guys from then like Chuck, Anderson and GSP threw straight down the pipe with closed fists. More clean, less bullshit. Also less use of distance-only as a weapon. Anderson was the best guy from range. But he didn't jab you to a decision from range. Moved a bit, then sniped.

I think the groin shots come from more use of high calf and thigh kicks. Not that much to bend the rules. Back then there weren't that many low kickers. The Chute Boxe guys were the prominent ones. They used classic MT lower lows. Aldo did those too. Diabate, Hardonk and some others. More brawling back then.

The rear straight to the body is rare. Bas used to do it. Cro Cop a bit. But it was and still is more kicks from range and hooks up close.

"Distance pawing" is a very good way to put it. I feel like it's such a fad right now.

 

[FireKidWS]

@IngaVovchanchyn

Saw some of your PBP comments the other day when we had our day of groin kicks.

Wondering your thoughts on the OP and the increase in fouls.

 

[FireKidWS]

Don't you guys think this would cause way more draws, and way more cheesy wins by penalty? Imagine a number one contender fight getting drawn, or a guy getting a title shot off penalty points.

It's natural in the abstract to think "what's fair is fair and that's how it should be", but I think the problems it'd cause for the sport would be huge.

Perhaps a yellow card/fine system would apply a meaningful penalty without affecting the competition too much.

These are fair points.

However, I personally would rather a fair-fighting guy take the belt over rather than a guy who you knows only holds the belt due to fouls or the threat of fouls.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

@IngaVovchanchyn

Saw some of your PBP comments the other day when we had our day of groin kicks.

Wondering your thoughts on the OP and the increase in fouls.

I don't know whether or not there has been an increase in fouls, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I just find it hilarious how quickly announcers jump in to say, 'it was obviously unintentional'. Intent is rarely obvious with such things. In the last card, one fighter finally had a point taken away after a third eyepoke, but it's crazy to me that two eyepokes would be allowed in a three round fight. Basically the current system is that you get two free fouls every fight.

 

[Mr Joyboy]

I don't know whether or not there has been an increase in fouls, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I just find it hilarious how quickly announcers jump in to say, 'it was obviously unintentional'. Intent is rarely obvious with such things. In the last card, one fighter finally had a point taken away after a third eyepoke, but it's crazy to me that two eyepokes would be allowed in a three round fight. Basically the current system is that you get two free fouls every fight.

I've noticed that now commentators have a canned line of patter for fouls, "obviously unintentional", etc, whereas they used to react to and talk about them much more spontaneously.

It seems so common now that they could sell a sponsorship for it. "This eyepoke replay is brought to you by Captain Morgan"

 

[Herwald]

The nut shots the last month or so have been out of control. It’s almost bizarre how it went from maybe once an event to 5+ per event.

Must be something in the air.

 

[LoneLynx]

We need to put the onus on fighters to keep their fingers out of their opponents eyes. This “accidental” crap doesn’t work.

 

[Hotora86]

Don't you guys think this would cause way more draws, and way more cheesy wins by penalty? Imagine a number one contender fight getting drawn, or a guy getting a title shot off penalty points.

It's natural in the abstract to think "what's fair is fair and that's how it should be", but I think the problems it'd cause for the sport would be huge.

Perhaps a yellow card/fine system would apply a meaningful penalty without affecting the competition too much.

If the draws would be fair then yay to that. I want more 10-10 rounds and I'm fine with draws for close fights.

Cheesy penalty wins won't win any fans for the "diver" and will get him fired as soon as he loses.

Yellow cards like in PRIDE would be nice but I don't see the UFC adopting that anytime soon.

 

[Sticko]

Don't you guys think this would cause way more draws, and way more cheesy wins by penalty? Imagine a number one contender fight getting drawn, or a guy getting a title shot off penalty points.

It's natural in the abstract to think "what's fair is fair and that's how it should be", but I think the problems it'd cause for the sport would be huge.

Perhaps a yellow card/fine system would apply a meaningful penalty without affecting the competition too much.

Any fight that is won by a point deduction would have been a draw otherwise. There are hardly any draws currently so very few people will win because of a penalty.

There would be a lot more draws though

 

[MCS]

I don't know whether or not there has been an increase in fouls, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I just find it hilarious how quickly announcers jump in to say, 'it was obviously unintentional'. Intent is rarely obvious with such things. In the last card, one fighter finally had a point taken away after a third eyepoke, but it's crazy to me that two eyepokes would be allowed in a three round fight. Basically the current system is that you get two free fouls every fight.

They don't want to accuse or insult the fighter if they're not sure, so them being polite could just give them a foul pass. Intent doesn't matter anyways with fouls. It stings/hampers the same way, and like you said you're never really sure what's intentional and what's not. Less sure in the moment, as well.

 

[MichaelT]

I think it's just evolution of technique, back then everyone had their fists closed and kind of stiff boxing, now people have better technique, they're more loose and have their hands open and actually use their hands more to post etc, kicks evolved too, low body kick that comes up and can set up a front face kick can land on the groin, just my guesses, I don't think people are eyepoking on purpose, I've done it a couple of times in sparring where if you slowed it down it would probably look blatant, but you are just trying to post and the guy charges right into your fingers

 

[sutherland]

Solution:
Take points no matter if intentional or not.

I don't care if it was unintentional, the foul gives an advantage to one fighter and changes the fight dynamic. A taken point restores the balance. And it will force "foulers" to finish the fight if they want to win.

Eye pokes for sure. Nut shots should be a eye for a eye, make the offender stand and receive one back

 

[sutherland]

How can you create a whole essay on your theory and then call someone low IQ when you failed to provide simple data to support your case.

Do you really think anybody will spend time to formulate a thoughtful counter argument when you failed to do so yourself? Use your brain next time.

Lol at trying to insult me with that reddit line.

Later

Then provide your own data to prove him wrong, instead off being a parrot calling for "sorceress". It works both ways.

 

[nstig8]

The simple answer is that modern UFC fights spend way more time standing at distance than fights from 2000-2008. That was the era of NCAA wrestlers and their 30-27s. The overwhelming majority of eye pokes/groin shots are when fighters are standing at distance. TD defense in the modern UFC meta is completely different.