O'malley Yan may have been a robbery...

[xhaydenx]

Stop with that shit. I don’t hate O’Malley, I root for him but this is beyond silly. You are a complete fucking idiot if you think he won that fight, end of story.

There are no ”narratives” besides the one who tries to sanction the farcical outcome.

How about the actual, real life narrative that Suga won? Because that's what happened.

If you can't see how Suga could have possibly won that fight then just leave it at that and be quiet. You sound low IQ and arrogant calling people "fucking idiots" because you're too much of a dumb cunt to see it from other perspectives or understand how fights are judged.

 

[The Hash Slinging Slasher]

We had a lot of questions about O’Malley stepping up against a guy like Yan. He absolutely proved he belongs in the top 5 at BW, but he didn’t win that fight.

 

[Langinbang187]

You posted a picture of the stats for the entire fight showing Sean landed 26 more significant strikes than Yan did.... Post a picture of the strikes per round and where they were landing. Let's see how many head strikes each guy landed. Do you think clean head strikes are worth more or less than leg kicks? The TD was not enough to outweigh the work Sean did on the feet in the first. Stop lying to yourself about what happened in the fight and you'll be much happier. No matter how many times you repeat the lie it's not going to change the results of the fight. I don't need to let it go because anyone can watch round 1 again and see that I'm right, so I have no issues continuing to argue lol.

I posted a picture of data that showed that all but 7 of O'Malleys strikes, the overwhelming majority being jabs, counted as "significant" whatever that even means, as the criteria is evidently laughable and highly subjective, while he was also outlanded through the duration of the fight, taken down 6 times, controlled for over an entire round + nearly a full minute.

What work did Sean do in the first? He was outlanded 28-23, walked down, taken down and controlled on the ground for over a full minute in that round. Why does he win that round, because you like him more? there's no logic behind your stance, that's my gripe. You're now resorted to "head strikes" despite the fact that it's well known Yan's body kicks were the most significant strikes landed in the first round, you simply cannot admit that you're wrong, and continue to desperately grasp at straws.

I've been through this with several other posters tonight, your complete and utter refusal to quit while behind, despite an inability to bring a single logical argument, rebuttal to the table is simply reaching next level proportions at this point.

You can re-watch round 1 as many times as you like, lie to yourself that "you're right", but the reality is under the current scoring criteria, there is absolutely no logical argument for Sean O'Malley winning 2 rounds in that fight, point blank, and it's sad you're so emotionally connected to this guy you're willing to die on this hill without even a modicum of evidence/logic behind your stance other than "trust me bro"


http://ufcstats.com/fight-details/5c3c4bcc6c746ca0

 

[xhaydenx]

The reason people are counting the takedowns and control in Yan vs Omalley is because the standup was close enough that they needed a way to not score it a draw round. Those takedowns and control stood out in those rounds. Yan wasn't extremely effective with them, but they stood out in what looked like a draw round to many people.

You're not understanding how fights are judged.

You can count the takedowns and control, but that doesn't top damage and bigger moments for Suga when he was also landing enough strikes as well. The stats show he was landing as many sig strikes if not more than Yan in the rounds that 2 judges thought he won. This doesn't decide everything though, either does who the fans or media outlets scored it for. Their opinions mean nothing.

In the first round they were both landing shots, but earlier on it was Suga landing cleaner, not Yan. Visuals are huge are in fighting. Getting your head snapped back multiple times in short succession is not a good visual to any judge.

Yan had some grappling control in round 1, but he also lost all those positions as well. As per the judging criteria, reversals and denials count. Did Suga not deny Yan's first td attempt? Did he not get up from the second one which Yan had done nothing with? Did he not take Yan's back briefly in the scramble at the end? All of these things count.

In round 3 Suga damaged Yan early on with an intercept knee. This is a big moment. Big moments can mean everything. There was a point in that round where Suga had Yan clearly hurt and covering up. Go read the judging criteria. Moments like this that have the more immediate potential to end the fight are weighed more heavily than accumulative shots and damage, which is what Yan's striking was resulting in. He had no big moment like Suga in Round 3.

If Yan had had just one big moment of his own in round 3, he'd have won that round. Same as in round 1. But he didn't have any of those moments. If he'd kept Suga down and started landing some clearly damaging GNP in round 3, he'd have won that round. Again, he didn't. 2 takedowns in round 3 that resulted in little damage before Suga got up don't outdo Suga's damage in that round. This is literally in the judging criteria. Takedowns have to lead to effective attacking, whether with striking or submission attempts. Hitting a takedown is fine if all other things are equal, but they weren't in this case.

I'm not saying that Suga blew Yan out or anything. This controversy always pops up when there's a good, close fight where the loser has a case for winning either both 2-1 or 3-0, when the winner only really had a chance of winning 2-1, which in this case, they did.

Calling people stupid says more about your understanding of the judging criteria (which you can look up easy enough) than it does anything else.

 

[808nEffect]

O’Malley whooped his ass. End of story.

Never go full retard. It’s unbecoming.

 

[Alittlevodka]

Rematch will be fun.

 

[XRedStaRx]

I posted a picture of data that showed that all but 7 of O'Malleys strikes, the overwhelming majority being jabs, counted as "significant" whatever that even means, as the criteria is evidently laughable and highly subjective, while he was also outlanded through the duration of the fight, taken down 6 times, controlled for over an entire round + nearly a full minute.

What work did Sean do in the first? He was outlanded 28-23, walked down, taken down and controlled on the ground for over a full minute in that round. Why does he win that round, because you like him more? there's no logic behind your stance, that's my gripe. You're now resorted to "head strikes" despite the fact that it's well known Yan's body kicks were the most significant strikes landed in the first round, you simply cannot admit that you're wrong, and continue to desperately grasp at straws.

I've been through this with several other posters tonight, your complete and utter refusal to quit while behind, despite an inability to bring a single logical argument, rebuttal to the table is simply reaching next level proportions at this point.

You can re-watch round 1 as many times as you like, lie to yourself that "you're right", but the reality is under the current scoring criteria, there is absolutely no logical argument for Sean O'Malley winning 2 rounds in that fight, point blank, and it's sad you're so emotionally connected to this guy you're willing to die on this hill without even a modicum of evidence/logic behind your stance other than "trust me bro"


http://ufcstats.com/fight-details/5c3c4bcc6c746ca0

Sean won rounds 1 and 3, I scored it live as well.

I was surprised everyone thought Yan took this when it was over.

 

[ki11ian]

How about the actual, real life narrative that Suga won? Because that's what happened.

If you can't see how Suga could have possibly won that fight then just leave it at that and be quiet. You sound low IQ and arrogant calling people "fucking idiots" because you're too much of a dumb cunt to see it from other perspectives or understand how fights are judged.

Normally I would kind of agree and you don’t have to worry about my IQ, nor my ability to see the fight from different perspectives. But in this instance there are simply no perspective that gives Sean the win.

 

[ferrisjso]

What are the odds of 26 people calling tails, and the coin landing that way? As well as the bookies, live bettors, 90% of the individuals who watched and voted on the fight?

It's okay to admit the decision was bad, these things happen, far more often than they should in combat sports, this is no anomaly, it's simply worse than usual.

Shit happens. Also human brains are not coins that are completley random. They have previously established biases and those would favor Yan who was considered a much better fighter. And it was really 21 people going tails 6 of them went 3-0 Yan.

I disagreed but it was a 2-1 coinflip decision. I've scored it for the winner in cases where 90% disagreed(though this is often cause I value takedowns higher such as Machida v Davis this is not relevant here). All you need is to have an argument for 2 rounds to have a shot in a three round fight. And O Malley did that.

Also feel if Yan got the decision the fight would still boost O Malley and diminish Yans standing at 135 so the outcome isn't that relevant.

 

[Langinbang187]

Sean won rounds 1 and 3, I scored it live as well.

I was surprised everyone thought Yan took this when it was over.

Oh, okay, well now I'm convinced O'Malley won.

Thanks for the closure, time to move on everyone.

 

[XRedStaRx]

Oh, okay, well now I'm convinced.

Thanks

The biggest problem with everyone I see scoring this fight for Yan is that they are still judging by the 2002 rulebook.

Sean won the fight, Yan needs to back to the gym and work on his game.

 

[Langinbang187]

Shit happens. Also human brains are not coins that are completley random. They have previously established biases and those would favor Yan who was considered a much better fighter. And it was really 21 people going tails 6 of them went 3-0 Yan.

I disagreed but it was a 2-1 coinflip decision. I've scored it for the winner in cases where 90% disagreed(though this is often cause I value takedowns higher such as Machida v Davis this is not relevant here). All you need is to have an argument for 2 rounds to have a shot in a three round fight. And O Malley did that.

Also feel if Yan got the decision the fight would still boost O Malley and diminish Yans standing at 135 so the outcome isn't that relevant.

But O'Malley based on the scoring criteria does not have a valid argument for winning round 1, or 2, where he was outlanded, hit with the hardest strikes(body kicks), walked down, taken down, controlled on the ground for over a single minute.

That is simply an illogical argument based on the current scoring system, he did not win that round, nor did he win the second round for that matter, which was significantly more lopsided.

 

[Langinbang187]

The biggest problem with everyone I see scoring this fight for Yan is that they are still judging by the 2002 rulebook.

Sean won the fight, Yan needs to back to the gym and work on his game.

I've posted the current scoring criteria in this exact thread, scroll up.

You should not win a round where you're outlanded, walked down, taken down, conrolled on the ground for over a solid minute of a 5 minute round, without landing anything of significance to negate anything mentioned.

Yan has won significantly closer decisions in the past, Jimmie Rivera being an example off the top of my head, he had a significantly better performance against Yan than O'Malley did tonight.

 

[xhaydenx]

Normally I would kind of agree and you don’t have to worry about my IQ, nor my ability to see the fight from different perspectives. But in this instance there are simply no perspective that gives Sean the win.

And yet two out of three judges and and a minority of fans - including myself - did in fact acknowledge a different perspective, so clearly your ability is lacking, no?

By the way, I'm not some Suga fan. If anything, my perspective should be biased against Suga, not for him. Yan not finishing Suga cost me $100, and then Yan not winning cost me what would have been a roughly $250 profit as I had him to win in a parlay.

I gamble for a living and I'd have been happy with Yan just winning, but knowing how fights are scored along with how they're actually supposed to be scored, I could tell Suga was more than likely getting the decision. These judges weren't even the moronic ones either. Good lord it really could have been a 3-0 sweep for Suga if Chris Lee was working haha.

 

[abject]

...but the stats don't lie. O'malley was piecing up the best striker we have seen in BW history on the feet. Yan did have a few good shots but in the third round, O'malleys strike difference with Yan was pretty outstanding. Even if Yan had one, O'malleys stock has risen considerably as he literally went toe to toe with arguably the best BW in the world. at the very least imo, he deserves to be thought of as top 5 right now.

No robbery. Yan did his standard " punching bag" in round one. No way Yan won that. he won the second clearly. In the third Yan got panic takedowns but did little to nothing on the ground. Both landed decent strikes but OMalley landed more significant strikes and busted Yan up badly. Hence the win.

 

[boingyman]

Give O'Malley to Max next please and let it be 5 rounds.

 

[Dr Brian Pepper]

I think people crying for Yan to win dont realize that this is a good thing for mma.

Getting a takedown should not be what steals a round when the fighter gets back up and is not held down that long.

Yan was taking him down, but sean was getting back up, separating and then winning the standup.

I figured judges would give tYan the fight based on takedowns, and I am quite happy they didnt, stop putting so much on takedowns that lead to nothing.

 

[xhaydenx]

But O'Malley based on the scoring criteria does not have a valid argument for winning round 1, or 2, where he was outlanded, hit with the hardest strikes(body kicks), walked down, taken down, controlled on the ground for over a single minute.

That is simply an illogical argument based on the current scoring system, he did not win that round, nor did he win the second round for that matter, which was significantly more lopsided.

I've posted the current scoring criteria in this exact thread, scroll up.

You should not win a round where you're outlanded, walked down, taken down, conrolled on the ground for over a solid minute of a 5 minute round, without landing anything of significance to negate anything mentioned.

Yan has won significantly closer decisions in the past, Jimmie Rivera being an example off the top of my head, he had a significantly better performance against Yan than O'Malley did tonight.

Moments that are more damaging and, more importantly, appear more damaging and likely to end a fight top just about anything else that can happen in a fight. That's the key part of the judging criteria.

You say that you should not win a round where you're outlanded, walked down, taken down, and controlled, without landing anything of significance to negate all that, and while I do agree, that isn't really what happened.

Suga did noticeably hurt Yan in rounds 1 and 2. He won round 3 almost all on this. Yan did not noticeably hurt Suga in the third. Passages of action that look likely to end a fight are weighed far more heavily than accumulative damage, which is what Yan was doing. I don't particularly agree with it, but this is what the judging criteria says.

Takedowns need to lead to GNP or sub attempts for them to negate what damage Suga was doing. That's in the criteria too. If you take someone down, do very little with it other than control, that isn't enough. And if your opponent gets up having taken little or no damage, it's usually seen as a point to them.

Big moments matter.

You bring up Yan vs Jimmie, but a lot of sharp people thought Jimmie would have likely won that fight 2-1 without the knockdowns in those rounds that looked like they could have been Jimmie's. The big moments sealed it for Yan.

It's not that different to what happened here with Suga. Accumulative success from Yan just didn't top Suga's big moments, which happened exactly when they happened for him to have had any chance of winning the round. How Yan lost isn't really arguable, considering two judges literally scored it for Suga and there's no other possibly way they could have reasoned it.

 

[Langinbang187]

Moments that are more damaging and, more importantly, appear more damaging and likely to end a fight top just about anything else that can happen in a fight. That's the key part of the judging criteria.

You say that you should not win a round where you're outlanded, walked down, taken down, and controlled, without landing anything of significance to negate all that, and while I do agree, that isn't really what happened.

Suga did noticeably hurt Yan in rounds 1 and 2. He won round 3 almost all on this. Yan did not noticeably hurt Suga in the third. Passages of action that look likely to end a fight are weighed far more heavily than accumulative damage, which is what Yan was doing. I don't particularly agree with it, but this is what the judging criteria says.

Takedowns need to lead to GNP or sub attempts for them to negate what damage Suga was doing. That's in the criteria too. If you take someone down, do very little with it other than control, that isn't enough. And if your opponent gets up having taken little or no damage, it's usually seen as a point to them.

Big moments matter.

You bring up Yan vs Jimmie, but a lot of sharp people thought Jimmie would have likely won that fight 2-1 without the knockdowns in those rounds that looked like they could have been Jimmie's. The big moments sealed it for Yan.

It's not that different to what happened here with Suga. Accumulative success from Yan just didn't top Suga's big moments, which happened exactly when they happened for him to have had any chance of winning the round. How Yan lost isn't really arguable, considering two judges literally scored it for Suga and there's no other possibly way they could have reasoned it.

I want to know when, I have this fight recorded, where was Yan visibly staggered, hurt in this round? I keep seeing this narrative repeated, and I absolutely cannot find it, despite numerous viewings of this particular round by myself. I am not trying to be argumental at this point, but I genuinely cannot label this anything but fabrication, because it absolutely, simply did not visibly transpire, no matter how many times O'Malleys fans continue to spew it, it simply did not transpire to the human eye.

Where was the big moment in round 1 for Sean O'Malley? the largest moments of the fight to my eye after several watchovers, were body kicks, and a big takedown from Yan. The difference is Yan visibly made Jimmie do the chicken dance/dropped him at the end of those rounds, at which point did this occur in round 1 against Yan? It didn't. I've watched it multiple times, it simply did not transpire, you need to re-watch the fight, sober.

At no point during the fight was Yan as hurt as O'Malley was in round 2, where he quite frankly looked half conscious for several seconds.

What do you mean even mean with your last sentence? Of course it's arguable, 90% of the population who witnessed the fight are literally against the decision.

 

[ki11ian]

And yet two out of three judges and and a minority of fans - including myself - did in fact acknowledge a different perspective, so clearly your ability is lacking, no?



By the way, I'm not some Suga fan. If anything, my perspective should be biased against Suga, not for him. Yan not finishing Suga cost me $100, and then Yan not winning cost me what would have been a roughly $250 profit as I had him to win in a parlay.

I gamble for a living and I'd have been happy with Yan just winning, but knowing how fights are scored along with how they're actually supposed to be scored, I could tell Suga was more than likely getting the decision. These judges weren't even the moronic ones either. Good lord it really could have been a 3-0 sweep for Suga if Chris Lee was working haha.

No, my ability is not clearly lacking. If you as a professional gambler thought the decision was leaning towards Sean after the fight you must have weighed in other factors. Like him being an instagram star, Yan being Russian, the fight taking place in a part of the world where eveything is possible etc.

The fight was fairly even in the standup exchanges if you don’t factor in ”octagon control” which would be given to Yan if that is still a criterea. But then we add like 2 takedowns PER ROUND for Yan and we are left with this travesty.

I rooted for Sean but thought he would get run over. Now he held his own against a superior opponent and, while soundly outmatched, should get his props for that. But getting the win was pure comedy.

Now that we have concluded that we have zero chance of agreeing on this I am going to bow out. Good luck on your future gambling endevours.