Olivera can reach 155 goat status

[The Chosen]

He lost to Cerrone...he sucks.

I like how Cerrone is the perennial punching bag and gauge if someone is trash or not LMAO

 

[The Chosen]

8 fight win streak with 1 top 10 win though

Kevin Lee was a top 10 guy once, he fought for the interim belt before

 

[13Seconds]

Nahhh, goat candidates can't even lose, I love charles' style evolution but dude has an almost double digit losing record. Come on man, people like you responsible for throwing around the goat term just like that are the ones cheapening it.

Understand that goat means
GREATEST OF ALL TIME

Best and greatest are two separate things. Ali lost in his prime. Floyd never lost. Ali is still greater. Floyd is better.

 

[Arkham's Notorious Geyser]

yes, but that has nothing to do with GOAT.
Whatever happened in that region and why he is idolized... that's irrelevant for GOAT talks.

Maybe not for those people, but then you know it is just clubbism, and not his merit in cage.

Khabib might be unbeaten, but he stayed as a champion, fighting the best a small fraction of time, when you compare with Fedor, GSP, Silva or even Aldo

So I disagree Khabib will ever be considered a consensus GOAT.

And if Oliveira gets the belt and continues dominating for the next 8-9 years against the best of the division, he can definitely surpass Khabib... easily!
Saying no just because you like Khabib only disqualifies your view as obviously biased.

I don't necessarily disagree but in the here and now, Khabib has a greater Legacy than Oliveira, you're playing with a LOT of If's when it comes to Charles and putting an extremely high ceiling on him in a very talent stacked division. It's unfair to play the If game up to a decade when we're literally in the beginning of 2020.

As it stands Charles is an amazing fighter, and I do favor him over most LW's fighting right now, but there's NO way to know what the landscape of 155 will love like, so jumping ahead and assuming he can win the belt is a bit presumptuous. The facts we have to work with now is Khabib retired undefeated with 3 Title Defenses, and Charles in on the cusp on a Championship fight, and has lost a few. The losses don't deter him, but again, these are the facts we're working with.

Let's see Oliveira get the belt first before we say he defends it for 8 years. And I never said I like Khabib like that either, so I don't know what point of my post you're addressing there.

 

[OmegaRugal]

For once we might actually agree, losing shouldn't be the end all be all to determine the GOAT, but it DEFINITELY helps to know that throughout your run, no one could fuck with you or the style you imposed, that shows an uncanny level of dominance.

I think that would be correct ... if you retired at 40, cleaned out the division more than once and never lost.

Not if you retire at 32 while in your prime and still not having an amazing resume while never fully cleaning out the division even once.

What if Izzy retires tomorrow ... is he the GOAT because he retired instead of continuing to prove himself and challenge himself against in a bigger weight class?

You are literally rewarding someone for NOT fighting.

 

[HardasNAILZ]

9 fight streak.. Hes 4 fights from tieing khabib and has more finishes and more exciting fights..

I dont see a gaethje or dp or conor stopping him

Zzzzzzzzzzz. He will lose his next fight. He just beat a washed up Tony Ferguson. Will people ever learn!?

 

[Maaj19]

All he did was lay and pray Tony for 90% of the fight, now he's the fucking GOAT.

Lay and pray?? We watching the same fight here? Tony got manhandled and Charles was active.

 

[Maaj19]

Does Oliviera need to sub McG for people to respect him? because it sure looks like it'd at the least be favored to happen.

Conor catches him early and put him to sleep really. His tdd is good enough to stop Charles from taking him down tbh.

 

[2EZ]

Goats dont have double digit losses sry go try fool someone else

 

[Arkham's Notorious Geyser]

I think that would be correct ... if you retired at 40, cleaned out the division more than once and never lost.

Not if you retire at 32 while in your prime and still not having an amazing resume while never fully cleaning out the division even once.

What if Izzy retires tomorrow ... is he the GOAT because he retired instead of continuing to prove himself and challenge himself against in a bigger weight class?

You are literally rewarding someone for NOT fighting.

Where do you come from attacking all these strawman's? Where in my initial post did I even give MY thoughts on Khabib's standing's as far as the GOAT conversation is concerned? I said he'll be remembered more because of the Impact he made on his respective region and Dagestan, but I never claimed he was the GOAT so what are you talking about?



Funny enough, I agree that him retiring during his athletic prime, and not having many Title defenses hurts his standing LONG term, but that was never the crux of my initial post, only the significance he had on his region helping him in the conversation when it comes to HIS fans, and how people will talk about him AS he competed.

I think he's one of the best Grapplers to ever do it at 155, and was a machine, but I never game my thoughts on where he stood when it comes to the GOAT conversation, but it'd be foolish to think he's not going to be hailed in an EXTREMELY high regard by his peers and an overwhelming majority of people, like Ali did.

Learn to read and quit attacking Strawman's and arguments I never made. I even agreed with Shadow's initial post and added an argument of my own NONE of which your post addresses besides quoting me and extrapolating 1 part to an insane degree.

 

[OmegaRugal]

Where do you come from attacking all these strawman's? Where in my initial post did I even give MY thoughts on Khabib's standing's as far as the GOAT conversation is concerned? I said he'll be remembered more because of the Impact he made on his respective region and Dagestan, but I never claimed he was the GOAT so what are you talking about?



Funny enough, I agree that him retiring during his athletic prime, and not having many Title defenses hurts his standing LONG term, but that was never the crux of my initial post, only the significance he had on his region helping him in the conversation when it comes to HIS fans, and how people will talk about him AS he competed.

I think he's one of the best Grapplers to ever do it at 155, and was a machine, but I never game my thoughts on where he stood when it comes to the GOAT conversation, but it'd be foolish to think he's not going to be hailed in an EXTREMELY high regard by his peers and an overwhelming majority of people, like Ali did.

Learn to read and quit attacking Strawman's and arguments I never made. I even agreed with Shadow's initial post and added an argument of my own NONE of which your post addresses besides quoting me and extrapolating 1 part to an insane degree.

My post wasn't just a shot at you. It was at everyone who continues to celebrate fighters quitting while ahead.

True you never fully said it but you did imply it still by saying "greater than Charles no matter what he does" that by quitting instead of still fighting, Khabib has locked in his greatness. I Think Khabib is in his prime. He should still keep fighting and clean out the division and maybe even try for the WW title. But people who celebrate quitting would also say If he continued to fight against say Charles Olivera and lost ... now he is a bum in your eyes. That's the problem you guys have.

This mentality effectively means that you reward people for quitting instead of fighting and continue to challenge yourself.

"greater than Charles no matter what he does"

So even if Charles wins the title ... defends 10 times, maybe wins the WW title ... still ... he is inferior to Khabib because Khabib quit while ahead and retired at 32 in many people's opinion.

You can give all the explains about what he means to people but you are like so many people ... validating and praising quitting instead of fighting.

Israel should retire then right now to be the new GOAT.

He means a lot to his countrymen. Maybe not as much as Khabib but still. Undefeated, in his prime, cleaned out MW. Might as well retire so you guys can call him the GOAT. That's what all you and others' cherish above constantly proving yourself.

I honestly think we need to stop rewarding quitting and start rewarding fighters who fight. Fighters who challenge themselves. Fighters who fight everyone. Fighters who move up to win multiple belts. Fighters with amazing resumes. Fighters who are not afraid of rematches (ie example Cormer could have retired HW champ at 40 instead of at 41 with Stipe a rematch. He lost but I don't hold that against him. True warrior). Those are the true GOATS imo.

Again this post isn't just you ... its for everyone that praises quitting at 32 over fighters who continue to prove themselves until they can't anymore.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

hard to reach khabibs status. He will have to beat conor, poirer justin and who the fuck else to get to that level, and still, dont think he can reach if he doesnt beat khabib. But, if he somehow manages to beat conor/poirer, nad khabib wants to come back for that 30-0, and he pulls it off, he might have a case for LW goat. I dont think he can beat khabib though.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

At this point anything is possible. If Oliveira wins the title in his 9th win and defends it 4 times leading to 13 straight wins he'd have a case.
His accomplishments would include:
- most submissions victories in UFC history
- longest win streak in UFC LW
- most title defenses in UFC (probably against the same opponents Khabib fight in his championship run)

It's not impossible....

Poirier is a bad matchup for him and starches him. I really believe that.

With an improved offensive wrestling game he's actually a bad match up for Dustin. Dustin's 2 bad match ups are a legit power puncher and a guy who can put Dustin on his back.

 

[Franklin U.]

9 fight streak.. Hes 4 fights from tieing khabib and has more finishes and more exciting fights..

I dont see a gaethje or dp or conor stopping him

I've been the lead navigator of the do bronx war wagon for a few years now. Nobody in mma has evolved more in 3 years than Charles Oliveria. He reminds me of werdum / kings/ cordeiro except do bronx now at the true prime of career , an absolute filled out & complete fighter and I dont see anyone beating him not nsmed khabib. I hate to admit - McGregor most dangerous opponent and hes the only one that Charlie can have the ego that he can outstrike Conor on feet ( although I would not be shocked if he did catch Conor with one of his now moving forward 8 points. That would be dangerous, though ).He fights smart , he grounds Conor and Gregor taps like a bitty baby. I would love to see that being the fight once dust settles.....more bang ( underdog) for my buck.

As far as "155 goat " goes....we're still in premature stages for such talk. He does have the tools and hes at the perfect age to continue his unbelievable " get even better with each fight " mode.

I'm SO interested to see where his ceiling is now. Khabib would even have a reason to comeback for a " worthy opponent".

I'd love to see todays do bronx fight todays gaejthe.....and after Justin's comments a week or 2 ago, he has set himself up for a humbling.

 

[TITS]

Lay and pray?? We watching the same fight here? Tony got manhandled and Charles was active.

He just grapplefucked him, that's all.

 

[Maaj19]

He just grapplefucked him, that's all.

Smashed him on the ground, let's give Charles his props here. Everyone focusing more on Tony losing than Charles going out there and winning

 

[AGEZ909]

GOAT means absolutely nothing in MMA at this point.

 

[BForrester]

Kevin Lee and Furgeson are both big names, but his streak is composed of ancient guys like Nik Lentz and Jim Miller and green fighters like Teymur and Gordon.

GOATs win belts and then beat a long list of #1 challengers as part of their winning streaks. With (most) GOATs, there's talk of them moving up in weight because they're completely disinfected their division.

 

[Sticko]

Oliveira has more UFC submission wins (14) than Khabib has UFC fights (13).
Of course a big chunk of Oliveira's career has been spent fighting at FW, but he's 9-1 since returning full-time to LW.

Lower competition than Khabib but let's say hypothetically Do Bronx beats Gaethje, then beats Conor for the belt, then defends it against Chandler, RDA, and Felder, he'd tie Khabib for both UFC win streak at LW and number of defenses.

I'd probably still rate peak Khabib as the better fighter but in that scenario Oliveira would IMO be the UFC lightweight goat.

 

[Shaddows]

I don't necessarily disagree but in the here and now, Khabib has a greater Legacy than Oliveira, you're playing with a LOT of If's when it comes to Charles and putting an extremely high ceiling on him in a very talent stacked division. It's unfair to play the If game up to a decade when we're literally in the beginning of 2020.

As it stands Charles is an amazing fighter, and I do favor him over most LW's fighting right now, but there's NO way to know what the landscape of 155 will love like, so jumping ahead and assuming he can win the belt is a bit presumptuous. The facts we have to work with now is Khabib retired undefeated with 3 Title Defenses, and Charles in on the cusp on a Championship fight, and has lost a few. The losses don't deter him, but again, these are the facts we're working with.

Let's see Oliveira get the belt first before we say he defends it for 8 years. And I never said I like Khabib like that either, so I don't know what point of my post you're addressing there.

I think you are just too blind, my friend.
You said that there was no way for him to surpass Khabib.
I merely pointed out that here is a way.
I never said it is probable nor that he can do it.
But you are the one who closed his door. I merely showed it can happen.