International Oligarchy is not just a Russian phenomenon. It exists right here in the USA.

[Sinister]

Society progressed with slavery, fascism, and feudalism too. Your point?


I'm not. Are you just gonna continue posting stupid shit?

Just make more money and shut the f*ck up Bro!!

 

[deviake]

If you're not broke then why are you crying about money constantly? Invest your money.

I'll just scroll past your posts if all you're gonna do is very uninspired trolling. At least be funny or have a good gimmick

 

[deviake]

That iPhones and high speed internet are better than people starving to death.

That's still not making a point

 

[deviake]

Just make more money and shut the f*ck up Bro!!

The "you're broke bro!" thing never gets old. He's one of those posters who never seems to have anything interesting nor thoughtful to say literally ever, which would be fine if he was at least funny or had some redeeming quality

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

That's still not making a point

Yes. It is. Capitalism leads to innovation. Your system leads to mass starvation.

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

Just make more money and shut the f*ck up Bro!!

This but unironically.

 

[deviake]

Yes. It is. Capitalism leads to innovation. Your system leads to mass starvation.

Tell me what "my system" is and when I've advocated for it, Canadian who has universal healthcare.

Also, pretty much any "innovation" in the private sector started with the state

 

[Sinister]

This but unironically.

U sound poor Bro

 

[Jack V Savage]

It depends on who you mean by they. Increased welfare is broadly quite popular (over the 50% mark usually). But most Americans don't really understand the actual tax environment that we're in and what those changes would require. The GOP has done an excellent job preying on the latter. As I mentioned: Many Americans have a deep fear of the estate tax and how it will affect them even though statically speaking almost every single one of these people will never actually have enough wealth to be affected by it.

I think issue polling is basically worthless. Americans want lower taxes, lower spending overall, higher spending on every category they're asked about except foreign aid (they want to cut it to levels many times higher than actual levels), and lower deficits. We have representive democracy for a reason.

 

[nostradumbass]

Since 2020, 5 billion people got got poorer while the rich got a ton richer? That can't be, I've been told for the last 2 years straight that the economy was booming, Bidenomics has been a raging success, and the peasants were just too stupid to see how good they have it.

 

[Sinister]

I think issue polling is basically worthless. Americans want lower taxes, lower spending overall, higher spending on every category they're asked about except foreign aid (they want to cut it to levels many times higher than actual levels), and lower deficits. We have representive democracy for a reason.

Why is issue polling worthless? Right now ballot initiatives are some of the only potent ways to curtail State authoritarianism

 

[Jack V Savage]

Why is issue polling worthless? Right now ballot initiatives are some of the only potent ways to curtail State authoritarianism

I explained why. People are so ignorant about the basic operations of gov't they can't form meaningful opinions.

 

[terrapin]

So why hasn't that already happened?

Well when Bernie was talking about universal healthcare, the reason it didn't catch on is because mainstream media lied about what it would cost.


Jake tapper and lots of news programs only spoke about the cost of universal healthcare but they didn't talk about the savings or what we were already spending on healthcare.


It was a way of lying without telling a direct lie giving the American populace the data that they would pay more in taxes for their health care but not letting them know that they would pay less in premiums evening it all out.

They could have also discussed how many people go bankrupt lose their homes over medical debt just for getting sick. Who are still covered by insurance when it happens and we could talk about how none of that would happen under universal health care.

Basically an honest assessment of what it would mean to have universal health Care was never offered to the public for them to actually consider it and on top of that they lied and slandered Bernie as a communist etc.


If people had an honest assessment I believe they would choose universal health care over private insurance any day for the most part, but getting an honest conversation in this country. With moneyed interests influencing it is very difficult.

There is a certain percentage of Republicans who would never choose universal healthcare, but I don't believe for one minute. It's enough to stop it from going through if an honest conversation was had.

 

[Sinister]

I explained why. People are so ignorant about the basic operations of gov't they can't form meaningful opinions.

That's the exact reason FOR issue polling. It's not asking them about the Government, it asks them if they would like a thing or not.

 

[Jack V Savage]

That's the exact reason FOR issue polling. It's not asking them about the Government, it asks them if they would like a thing or not.

Policy is about tradeoffs. People want all good things.

 

[Sinister]

Policy is about tradeoffs. People want all good things.

Nice side-step. Policy is only about tradeoffs when there are conflicting interests, and when specific ones have more influence over the levers of power. I mean it's not surprising that in a thread addressing some of the woes of capitalism, youd dismiss what the constituency wants to a certain degree because you KNOW there are interests who are going to go "what's in it for me?"

 

[Jack V Savage]

Nice side-step.

Man, you're disappointing me a lot in this thread. Not playing this game.

 

[no fat chicks]

I don't think anyone on here is anti-capitalist for the most part. Certainly Bernie Sanders isn't and I'm not. And when you ask for the wealth lines, that's a pretty tough question and no one really knows the answer to that.

Personally, I don't care how wealthy some people get as long as there's a basic level of wealth for everybody. Universal healthcare with no extended private insurance for wealthy people so that wealthy people are just as incentivized to keep universal healthcare, healthy and well funded, wages for even menial jobs that can support a family, buy a house, etc and free state colleges so that everyone has access to education would be a good start. I suppose there are some other things like equal funding for all public schools etc.

I also think there are certain industries which should be nationalized and I'm not sure how many people that support Bernie share this perspective, but I don't think that the lumber companies should be privately owned and I don't think that oil and coal companies should be privately owned. They should be nationalized provide really good wages for the workers and every other cent that is made should go to cleaning the environment and making sure there is no toxic chemicals or pollution being put into the air, water or land. The goods of the land should be shared in common with all of the people of the land and not privatized and given to certain individuals.


Beyond that, if a person wants to get super rich, I think they should be allowed to without guilt.

Our economy is just a game. It's not reality it can be structured many different ways... we have to keep in mind we're just playing a game here and we want to make the game fun for everybody or it's not worth playing.

Weve been needing some balance patches for like 60 years now. Bunch of sweats and cheaters have been getting away exploiting glitches.

 

[moreorless87]

Society progressed with slavery, fascism, and feudalism too. Your point?

Plenty of famines happened under capitalism as well, ask the Bengalis if they loved British rule.

Personally I tend to think were increasingly seeing what the "End of History" view was a very short termist self serving fantasy. This idea that society was on an inevitable march to advancement I think really was pushed to make the public more apathetic when in reality the advancements we associate with the post WW2 era were all hard won, mostly against the interests of the ultra wealthy.

That Post War/Post Depression era I would argue was really the result of the ultra wealthy being fearful enough that they had to make serious compromises to improve the lives of much of the public, a very serious politicised labour movement exists which threatened to potentially gain power itself plus you had the USSR, the potential for revolution and millions of trained soldiers coming home. Since then and especially from Reagan onwards I think you've arguably see the return to normalcy in a capitalist society, back towards something like the gilded age/robber baron era.

 

[Sinister]

Plenty of famines happened under capitalism as well, ask the Bengalis if they loved British rule.

Personally I tend to think were increasingly seeing what the "End of History" view was a very short termist self serving fantasy. This idea that society was on an inevitable march to advancement I think really was pushed to make the public more apathetic when in reality the advancements we associate with the post WW2 era were all hard won, mostly against the interests of the ultra wealthy.

That Post War/Post Depression era I would argue was really the result of the ultra wealthy being fearful enough that they had to make serious compromises to improve the lives of much of the public, a very serious politicised labour movement exists which threatened to potentially gain power itself plus you had the USSR, the potential for revolution and millions of trained soldiers coming home. Since then and especially from Reagan onwards I think you've arguably see the return to normalcy in a capitalist society, back towards something like the gilded age/robber baron era.

There are people in the US starving right this second. But the most staunch proponents of capitalism would have us believe they should be grateful for much finer dumpsters to possibly eat out of than anywhere else.