Old Bare Knuckle Boxing's Effectiveness?

[Adnan Adil]

To be honest with you, guys, I have always thought that old boxing is some useless s**t. I have always thought that it is some funny form of fighting which is too outdated to be used in nowadays. I have always wondered why the Asians have so advanced MA compared with the ''useless old boxing''.

Recently I am reading more and more that in fact the old boxing is not useless and it has some big advantages in fight without gloves. I've read that the vertical punches (which I've almost never used) could be the only alternative in a bare knuckle fight, because they are designed for such fights.

So, does someone have some experience with such systems? Is this working on the street? Is the old way compared with the modern boxing superior or inferior? Have you ever seen someone to use old boxing tactics and strategies in a real fight?

 

[spacetime]

To be honest with you, guys, I have always thought that old boxing is some useless s**t. I have always thought that it is some funny form of fighting which is too outdated to be used in nowadays. I have always wondered why the Asians have so advanced MA compared with the ''useless old boxing''.

Recently I am reading more and more that in fact the old boxing is not useless and it has some big advantages in fight without gloves. I've read that the vertical punches (which I've almost never used) could be the only alternative in a bare knuckle fight, because they are designed for such fights.

So, does someone have some experience with such systems? Is this working on the street? Is the old way compared with the modern boxing superior or inferior? Have you ever seen someone to use old boxing tactics and strategies in a real fight?

Vertical punches are almost never used in modern boxing?

 

[Sinister]

Have you tried searching the forum for bare knuckle boxing? This subject has been discussed quite thoroughly over the years

 

[Hatake88]

Old style boxing which has a stronger emphasis on footwork and evasion (rather than defending all the punches using a high guard) is actually very useful for MMA and you take a lot less damage. When I spar, the first thing people notice is my footwork and head movement - everyone keeps on saying I will eventually get hit with a knee/kick but if your foot positioning is right then the chances are as low as more modern forms of boxing which seems to be in and out, in and out with little variation.

Learning to punch and ground yourself the way Sinister teaches (for example, keeping a proper chin down/chest up wider stance with the weight being on the opposite foot when you punch) also produces much more power and gives you much more control over your movement than the punching you see in MMA/traditional MT.

 

[RightToBareKnuckles]

i chuckled at "the Asians"...sounds like something my grandfather would say

 

[KarateStylist]

Recently I am reading more and more that in fact the old boxing is not useless and it has some big advantages in fight without gloves. I've read that the vertical punches (which I've almost never used) could be the only alternative in a bare knuckle fight, because they are designed for such fights.

There's quite bit on the internet comparing "old style boxing" with karate. Similarities and what not.

Because I consider boxing inferior to karate, and I can't box my way out of a paper bag - I never really investigated the
subject.

My scant impression however is that a boxing stylist could profit from looking into the subject to further examine the principles of the art. Could be quite profitable versus just going on the conventional practices of today.

 

[RightToBareKnuckles]

as everyone said, there's lots of information on the internet and this site about the similarities between the two, just go a google image search and here's one of the top pictures. funny how people fighting without gloves developed similar methods

 

[Adnan Adil]

Vertical punches are almost never used in modern boxing?

Ok, I don't say that nobody uses them, but the main technique in most of not all gyms to deliver a straight punch is with horizontal fist.

Have you tried searching the forum for bare knuckle boxing? This subject has been discussed quite thoroughly over the years

Yes, you are right, man. Actually, I have found some info on the topic, but I wanted to ask for the specific comparison.

Old style boxing which has a stronger emphasis on footwork and evasion (rather than defending all the punches using a high guard) is actually very useful for MMA and you take a lot less damage. When I spar, the first thing people notice is my footwork and head movement - everyone keeps on saying I will eventually get hit with a knee/kick but if your foot positioning is right then the chances are as low as more modern forms of boxing which seems to be in and out, in and out with little variation.

Learning to punch and ground yourself the way Sinister teaches (for example, keeping a proper chin down/chest up wider stance with the weight being on the opposite foot when you punch) also produces much more power and gives you much more control over your movement than the punching you see in MMA/traditional MT.

Honestly you rare surprising me. I have always thought that the footwork in not from the strongest sides of the bare knuckle boxing. For instance a guy on Quora, who has tremendous amount of experience (as a fighter and coach) thinks that the old boxing's footwork is inferior to that of the modern boxing. In every other aspect the modern boxing is superior.

as everyone said, there's lots of information on the internet and this site about the similarities between the two, just go a google image search and here's one of the top pictures. funny how people fighting without gloves developed similar methods

Yes, interesting. I wonder why they (bare knuckle fighters) hold their arms inwards?

 

[RightToBareKnuckles]

Ok, I don't say that nobody uses them, but the main technique in most of not all gyms to deliver a straight punch is with horizontal fist.



Yes, you are right, man. Actually, I have found some info on the topic, but I wanted to ask for the specific comparison.



Honestly you rare surprising me. I have always thought that the footwork in not from the strongest sides of the bare knuckle boxing. For instance a guy on Quora, who has tremendous amount of experience (as a fighter and coach) thinks that the old boxing's footwork is inferior to that of the modern boxing. In every other aspect the modern boxing is superior.



Yes, interesting. I wonder why they (bare knuckle fighters) hold their arms inwards?

i'm not positive, but i think the right arm is held inward/low to protect the liver?

 

[zapataxiv]

i'm not positive, but i think the right arm is held inward/low to protect the liver?

you are right.
it is a basic part of stance and defense but you keep your elbows rotated inwards not only does it protect your body better but it facilitates punching by discouraging throwing elbow flared punches.
interestingly enough i have sen these same principles taught in traditional kung fu. my buddy trains with a teacher from the original Jing wu school. and he explained an almost identical explanation as i heard from sin on why to take a back foot heavy stance and why to not let your elbows rotate outwards.

 

[SandisLL]

What is the Jing wu kung fu?
Interesting, because these styles are >1000.
If this doesn't require specific forearms conditioning ( i mean quite different than for karate ) and uses fists more than open hands fingers, then maybe might be usable for MMA?

 

[j123]

Ok, I don't say that nobody uses them, but the main technique in most of not all gyms to deliver a straight punch is with horizontal fist.

There's the corkscrew variation which I was taught on my 3rd week

 

[Adnan Adil]

i'm not positive, but i think the right arm is held inward/low to protect the liver?

you are right.
it is a basic part of stance and defense but you keep your elbows rotated inwards not only does it protect your body better but it facilitates punching by discouraging throwing elbow flared punches.
interestingly enough i have sen these same principles taught in traditional kung fu. my buddy trains with a teacher from the original Jing wu school. and he explained an almost identical explanation as i heard from sin on why to take a back foot heavy stance and why to not let your elbows rotate outwards.

So in old boxing the body is defended more than the head? I have heared such statements and they make me wonder- which was the main tharget- the head or the body in those bouts?

 

[SandisLL]

I think that both.
My opinion.
Before this "Old boxing " with some rules was older method; 0 rules, 0 rounds, referee The Holy God.
When monarchs attempted to cease duels with swords and pistols in order to save upper / middle class mans lifes, especially skilled feodals, oficers.
Then roots for some rules appered.
I

 

[zapataxiv]

What is the Jing wu kung fu?
Interesting, because these styles are >1000.
If this doesn't require specific forearms conditioning ( i mean quite different than for karate ) and uses fists more than open hands fingers, then maybe might be usable for MMA?

精武 jingwu was a Kung fu school here in Shanghai back in the early 1900’s. It is famous for its fictional portrayal in Bruce Lee’s Chinese connection and the remake with jet li fist of legend.

The particular style this guy was proficient in is eagle claw. The parent of wing chun. He was explaining that real eagle claw would look more like a sandy saddler and less like an Ip man.
Using fgootwork to pressure smaller strikes drawing out attacks and then building catch’s and traps off those opportunities.

 

[SandisLL]

They can use fists for punches and grab with hands, aren't heavily focused on specific fingers use for strikes?

 

[Ultra O’Dia]

So in old boxing the body is defended more than the head? I have heared such statements and they make me wonder- which was the main tharget- the head or the body in those bouts?

much less likely to break your hand on the body.... but if its defended with an elbow....

 

[zapataxiv]

So in old boxing the body is defended more than the head? I have heared such statements and they make me wonder- which was the main tharget- the head or the body in those bouts?

Not defended more. The benefit of having a back foot heavy stance is that it takes your head out of the way of incoming punches. So the defense of the head is built into the stance. There is slot more to it than that also.

 

[zapataxiv]

They can use fists for punches and grab with hands, aren't heavily focused on specific fingers use for strikes?

They have those things but they are the smallest subset. The biggest part is learning how to stand, move, and defend yourself.

Watch a bout with saddler on YouTube and you will see hand trapping and pressure and how it can be applied against resisting opponents that are skilled.

 

[SandisLL]

That's good, because these specific stirkes techniques with bare fingers cannot be used in MMA cos rules and gloves and are from my opinion more complicated for any applications than open hands hand - knife , hand - spear straight or angled...