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Judo Official Judo Thread

Patrick Jane said:
Zero Percent anything gets overturned. If i remember correctly, both of them are already bronze medalists after continuing in the tournament and nobody is gonna untangle that mess again.

Garrigos explained that he didn't keep the hold on purpose but couldn't hear the mate because of the loud crowd (i'm gonna press x to doubt that one). But to his defense, i can see how you might overfocus a bit on finishing your hold when you're in the actual olympics. But how the hell the ref did not call hansoku-make but ippon on that is absolutely beyond me. The worst i can say about Garrigos is that he should have been disqualified. But that incompetent referee should be fired for that decision. And since Garrigos received multiple death threats from japanese people after the event, the ref has some responsibility in this mess.
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What a terrible situation all around with no real fix. Garrigos might be full of shit but yeah, responsibility should have been on the ref to touch his arms and try to make him stop. Then if he didn't release, it's clearly hansoku make. But as it is, it looks like ref just stood idly by while Chong Li flagrantly murdered his opponent with no penalty but a dirty look:

1722369818720.png
 
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Thrawn33 said:
Hey folks!

Watched a few medal matches and 100% am disappointed in the constant shido game and the lack of time (and willingness) to engage on the ground. Was watching on the mess deck at lunch and had a hard time defending what I was seeing to a bunch of people who have never played.

Not a good look IMO.
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As someone who left judo in the 90s and then later got involved in mma and bjj I'm kind of appalled at two things from the current games.

1) guy dives into turtle, ref doesn't give time for the player that sprawled to punish him and attack the back / chokes. 30 seconds wouldn't kill the purity of judo.

2) uncontrolled ippons where the attacking player has given up on any ability to pin correctly after the throw. An ippon where you can be rolled instantly is kind of bs.

Yes, I'm coming from a bastard dirty judo for fighting / freestyle submission grappling standpoint and not the IOC judo purity standpoint..

But they both look terrible to me. I'd rather Judo got closer to other grappling arts not further away.
 
committed the teacher sin of complaining about a problem without offering a solution, which is what i've been saying for...two olympic cycles now:

1. stop the discontinuity between throw and roll. it's grappling. athletes should scramble. no more matte. which would be better facilitated by the implementation of rule #2
2. turtling should be a noncombativity shido

you show the average person a judo match and the question they ask is what the hell is up with the mutual pausing in the ground game. "they can just both stop fighting and stand up?"

3. noncombativity on the ground should be a noncombativity shido

and I'll die on my tiny little hill over here, but if you stop Judoing during your Judo match you should be penalized.

groundwork allergies should be penalized in a combat sport.
 
do you think bjj and other grappling arts should also penalize people for turtling?
 
they do. those sports have stalling penalties.

plus turtling in BJJ is like walking on your tiptoes towards your opponent with your arms out in judo
 
sure, but turtle still happens in those competition all the time. and they certainly dont get punished at the speed at which judo shido's or stand ups from newaza happen.

i'd bet making turtles shido'able would function to make people more hesitant to throw.

removing mate? you might as well merge all grappling sports into one.


judo is a throw focused art with submissions. and its practitioners want it to emphasize throwing.


imo, a more reasonable solution would be to make back mount an osaekomi to help discourage indiscriminant turtle bail outs and stalling.
 
i didn't mean *instant* shido, but if you're going to turtle for an extended period of time, that's noncombativity. so yeah, matte, shido and stand them up.

olympic judo is ridiculous to watch. competitors pay as much attention to the referee as their opponents.
 
BJ@LW&WW said:
judo is a throw focused art with submissions. and its practitioners want it to emphasize throwing.
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blanket statements like this are toxic. people with this mentality should practice Kurash.

judo and BJJ are the same art and two different sports.
 
you: "stop the discontinuity between throw and roll. it's grappling. athletes should scramble. no more matte"

also you: "matte, shido and stand them up"



saying judo is a martial art focused on throwing is toxic? lol, you are off your rocker boy.
 
BJ@LW&WW said:
you: "stop the discontinuity between throw and roll. it's grappling. athletes should scramble. no more matte"

also you: "matte, shido and stand them up"



saying judo is a martial art focused on throwing is toxic? lol, you are off your rocker boy.
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I'm sorry that was unclear:

the expectation would be that after any throw attempt both parties either proceed immediately into groundwork or stand themselves back up. the referee lets this play out in a dynamic manner.

if one or both parties becomes non-combative during the engagement (e.g. turtling with no effort to improve position, laying in a non-pinning position and looking at their referee) -> matte -> shido for non-combativity.

scrambles would play out better if leg grabs came back because in the absence of leg grabs a failed seoi doesn't really have a lot of viable options to stand up out of. maybe combat stand up? and this would solve the false attack problem because anybody who's just dropping with reckless abandon puts themselves in a terrible position.
 
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RJ Green said:
it's ridiculous how the ruleset disincentivizes sound grappling in favor of dynamic throws that don't happen.

#bringbackleggrabs #makejudogreatagain
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Pretty much, they keep fantasizing of the big uchimata that rarely comes.

If they allow one leg grab combined with upper body grab than we could see way more big throws without turning into single/double fest.
 
BJ@LW&WW said:
do you think bjj and other grappling arts should also penalize people for turtling?
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In IBJJF rules if you force an opponent from standing to turtle and then circle around to attack their back you get 2 pts for a takedown. Another 4 if you get hooks in and take the back.
 
RJ Green said:
I'm sorry that was unclear:

the expectation would be that after any throw attempt both parties either proceed immediately into groundwork or stand themselves back up. the referee lets this play out in a dynamic manner.

if one or both parties becomes non-combative during the engagement (e.g. turtling with no effort to improve position, laying in a non-pinning position and looking at their referee) -> matte -> shido for non-combativity.

scrambles would play out better if leg grabs came back because in the absence of leg grabs a failed seoi doesn't really have a lot of viable options to stand up out of. maybe combat stand up? and this would solve the false attack problem because anybody who's just dropping with reckless abandon puts themselves in a terrible position.
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Exactly. You can mess up an attack, turtle, and then immediately drive for a low single and that's not inactivity. Going belly down and waiting for the ref is inactivity.
 
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