Judo Official Judo Thread

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Are you familiar with these awkward moments where you don't know whether someone is joking or whether you're misunderstanding them? This is how i feel about your post.

Is he talking about Hifume Abe? Lol.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I'm of the mindset most bad takedown attempts are high risk...

I am a judoka myself but I do agree thaz judo is higher risk than wrestling generally. It s not even debatable IMO as it's obbiously ingrained in the Ippon mindset which encourages going for the one perfect/big throw that will win the fight in one second. If you miss your big throw you have options to reset.

In contrast, in wrestling it is much more about chaining attacks and continuous control in order to win on an accumulation of points. If you mess up a throw and give up your back you typically start losing points or at best you are in a shit position from which it will be tiring to get out or stall.

Then, on da streetz, turning throws, which tend to be more prevalent in judo, will typically be high impact and lead to a pin, which is pretty much fight ending. But fucking up your turning throw is not great with someone punching you and trying to gauge out your eyes. I think it's worse than messing up a wrestling leg attack.

Lastly, pretty much all judo throws rely on off balancing and timing to a greater extent than wrestling, which relies more on using strength at the right place. Therefore I think judo by design is more hit or miss.

 

[Deleted member 449757]

Is he talking about Hifume Abe? Lol.

I literally googled whether there are other somewhat well known Hifumis in Judo after reading the post. Pretty sure Abe is the only one around. That makes the prediction that he might win an olympic medal one day a pretty good joke.

 

[Thrawn33]

I am a judoka myself but I do agree thaz judo is higher risk than wrestling generally. It s not even debatable IMO as it's obbiously ingrained in the Ippon mindset which encourages going for the one perfect/big throw that will win the fight in one second. If you miss your big throw you have options to reset.

In contrast, in wrestling it is much more about chaining attacks and continuous control in order to win on an accumulation of points. If you mess up a throw and give up your back you typically start losing points or at best you are in a shit position from which it will be tiring to get out or stall.

Then, on da streetz, turning throws, which tend to be more prevalent in judo, will typically be high impact and lead to a pin, which is pretty much fight ending. But fucking up your turning throw is not great with someone punching you and trying to gauge out your eyes. I think it's worse than messing up a wrestling leg attack.

Lastly, pretty much all judo throws rely on off balancing and timing to a greater extent than wrestling, which relies more on using strength at the right place. Therefore I think judo by design is more hit or miss.

I see where you're coming from, and respect your opinion.

"Throw to pin" was drilled into my skull by my first coach almost 20 years ago, and as a former HS wrestler I took it to heart. Coach's rationale was don't trust the officials to give you an ippon, be ready to earn it with oseakomi. While I do have a personal highlight reel of mstch ending throws, many of my scoring throws were wazaris (this was back in the yuko/koka era) to osekomi wazari aswete ippon.

I feel judo has lost its way in this manner, but that's the Neverending debate.

Amazingly enough, when I tell folks I was a wrestler before I went Judo back when you could leg grab, I get asked if I "shot" my way through novice divisions...

...fun fact, never once scored from any kind of double or single when it was comp legal, got stuffed and usualky paid for it. Sadly, at my last judo club where coach made it all legal, I was burying senior guys with doubles since they came up in the "leg touch bad" era.

 

[Emanuele]

Why there were World judo championships in these days? Since World judo championships became annual, they weren't held during Olympic years (2012, 2016, 2020).

 

[ChickenBrother]

I see where you're coming from, and respect your opinion.

"Throw to pin" was drilled into my skull by my first coach almost 20 years ago, and as a former HS wrestler I took it to heart. Coach's rationale was don't trust the officials to give you an ippon, be ready to earn it with oseakomi. While I do have a personal highlight reel of mstch ending throws, many of my scoring throws were wazaris (this was back in the yuko/koka era) to osekomi wazari aswete ippon.

I feel judo has lost its way in this manner, but that's the Neverending debate.

Amazingly enough, when I tell folks I was a wrestler before I went Judo back when you could leg grab, I get asked if I "shot" my way through novice divisions...

...fun fact, never once scored from any kind of double or single when it was comp legal, got stuffed and usualky paid for it. Sadly, at my last judo club where coach made it all legal, I was burying senior guys with doubles since they came up in the "leg touch bad" era.

It's definitely easier to stuff doubles and singles with gi grips than in no gi as long as uke knows how to sprawl, and this has been evident cornering my kid in wrestling and BJJ tournaments lately. I trained those (and Judo) separately with limited overlap so I learned different habits for each ruleset, but doing them concurrently can confuse the shit out of someone learning for the first time. We also just started doing Judo at another gym because I figured that gi throws and proper ukemi is too important to ignore. And of course I'm doing the adult class there too for personal enrichment and because I can't have my son thinking his dad is a bitch.

Last week did standing randori for the first time in years with actual Judo guys. The no leg grab thing is a mindfuck and I fucking hate it. New school judoka have no sprawl reflex (unlike the old days) so they just leave their legs out there. On the plus side you can focus more on ashi waza foot sweep chains but I don't see a lot of those working on wrestlers. One of the chains we worked on starts by feinting o uchi gari by bumping uke's thigh with your thigh and expecting him to step back. And they did another feint with o soto gari, also expecting uke to step back. In wrestling, BJJ (or pre-2010 Judo), I would have said "thank you for the high single" and high crotched them into bolivian.

I get that two dudes jumping around grabbing each other's pants in a stalemate is ugly but the best compromise was the 3 second time limit for leg grabs they instituted around 1994. You could go for singles and doubles but had to complete the throw in 3 seconds or let go of the grips. Same as the current 3-second limit for "unconventional" lapel grips or you get shido.

 

[Mick Dojang]

How is judo for knees?

Have had an MCL/meniscus tear on my left knee years ago and some ACL trouble on my right more recently. Used to find BJJ was all good until I was kneeling directly on the kneecap, which is where I'd run into trouble. Wondering if judo might be a better option in that regard

 

[Deleted member 449757]

How is judo for knees?

Have had an MCL/meniscus tear on my left knee years ago and some ACL trouble on my right more recently. Used to find BJJ was all good until I was kneeling directly on the kneecap, which is where I'd run into trouble. Wondering if judo might be a better option in that regard

Depends on your style really. It can be worse if you have bad knees but there are also more ways to work around the problems than in BJJ.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

How is judo for knees?

Have had an MCL/meniscus tear on my left knee years ago and some ACL trouble on my right more recently. Used to find BJJ was all good until I was kneeling directly on the kneecap, which is where I'd run into trouble. Wondering if judo might be a better option in that regard

It s hard to tell which grappling sport is the worst for knees. Depending on your issues it ranges from not great to terrible.

IMO BJJ places more lateral, constant torsion on your knees. Judo has less constant torsion, but exposes you to more punctual, higher stress and impact depending on the situation, because judo involves falling down in all sorts of compromised situations.

 

[Emanuele]

Jean-Luc Rougé has been promoted 10th dan by the IJF. So, now 10th dan in judo are:
1) Yoshihiro Uchida.
2) George Kerr.
3) Jim Bregman.
4) Franco Capelletti.
5) Jean-Luc Rougé.

Yoshihiro Uchida died last week, now judo 10th dan are:
1) George Kerr.
2) Jim Bregman.
3) Franco Capelletti.
4) Jean-Luc Rougé.

 

[Thrawn33]

How is judo for knees?

Have had an MCL/meniscus tear on my left knee years ago and some ACL trouble on my right more recently. Used to find BJJ was all good until I was kneeling directly on the kneecap, which is where I'd run into trouble. Wondering if judo might be a better option in that regard

Judo is hard on every part of the body, lol. I don't care how good your ukemi is (mine is very very very good) you take enough hard falls over a long period of time and I wears down everything.

That said, always felt more suffering in the hips, back, fingers and toes (oh and for the guts that remember that one ankle injuy) than knees...

 

[shunyata]

Landed a perfect de ashi for the first time in a while last week.

Pressured my man back then dragged him forward into a step and intercepted it just right.

God's a good foot sweep feels good.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Judo is hard on every part of the body, lol. I don't care how good your ukemi is (mine is very very very good) you take enough hard falls over a long period of time and I wears down everything.

That said, always felt more suffering in the hips, back, fingers and toes (oh and for the guts that remember that one ankle injuy) than knees...

That s interesting. You think taking falls that are properly ukemi'ed breaks you down in the long term, even if you give yourself time to recover?

There is likely not a widely accepted view but my feeling is that everything in your body regenerates if you allow it. Of course, real injuries are something different.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Landed a perfect de ashi for the first time in a while last week.

Pressured my man back then dragged him forward into a step and intercepted it just right.

God's a good foot sweep feels good.

Perfectly timed foot sweeps are GOAT sparring awesomeness in all combat sports, not many things come close.

 

[RJ Green]

There is likely not a widely accepted view but my feeling is that everything in your body regenerates if you allow it.

Your view is incongruous with science.

"Mammalian aging is characterized by the progressive loss of tissue function and increased risk for disease. Accumulation of senescent cells in aging tissues partly contributes to this decline, and targeted depletion of senescent cells in vivo ameliorates many age-related phenotypes. The fundamental molecular mechanisms responsible for the decline of cellular health and fitness during senescence and aging are largely unknown."

Materials under stress degrade over time. Maintenance helps slow or repair degradation, but a certain point the miles start to add up. Aging means more degradation means longer recovery.

This is why there's a window for fast twitch athletes. those are the most power-intensive muscles. kids tend to make people rather sedentary, and most athletes tend to fall off the wagon of intense interval training by their 30s. elite athletes in their 40s never stop training, and either have the lifestyle that affords them ample recovery time, or HGH/TRT to compensate.

steroids reduce inflammation that causes muscle soreness and stiffness. this allows the athlete to maintain or increase training volume. they still need to put in the work, but they're able to put in a lot more. at least until other things start shrinking and snapping.

TLDR there's a finite amount of abuse your body can take, this is why modern sports science prioritizes periodization and recovery. the old school grind-it-out mentality got a lot of people through moments/hours/days/weeks, but unaddressed injuries will always catch back up with you.

 

[Deleted member 449757]

Your view is incongruous with science.

[...]

TLDR there's a finite amount of abuse your body can take, this is why modern sports science prioritizes periodization and recovery. the old school grind-it-out mentality got a lot of people through moments/hours/days/weeks, but unaddressed injuries will always catch back up with you.

I thought the TLDR was exactly the point KBE6EKCTAH_CCP made?

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Your view is incongruous with science.

"Mammalian aging is characterized by the progressive loss of tissue function and increased risk for disease. Accumulation of senescent cells in aging tissues partly contributes to this decline, and targeted depletion of senescent cells in vivo ameliorates many age-related phenotypes. The fundamental molecular mechanisms responsible for the decline of cellular health and fitness during senescence and aging are largely unknown."

Materials under stress degrade over time. Maintenance helps slow or repair degradation, but a certain point the miles start to add up. Aging means more degradation means longer recovery.

This is why there's a window for fast twitch athletes. those are the most power-intensive muscles. kids tend to make people rather sedentary, and most athletes tend to fall off the wagon of intense interval training by their 30s. elite athletes in their 40s never stop training, and either have the lifestyle that affords them ample recovery time, or HGH/TRT to compensate.

steroids reduce inflammation that causes muscle soreness and stiffness. this allows the athlete to maintain or increase training volume. they still need to put in the work, but they're able to put in a lot more. at least until other things start shrinking and snapping.

TLDR there's a finite amount of abuse your body can take, this is why modern sports science prioritizes periodization and recovery. the old school grind-it-out mentality got a lot of people through moments/hours/days/weeks, but unaddressed injuries will always catch back up with you.

I think we might be saying the same thing. "If you allow it" means giving adequate recovery to your body.

 

[Marko Atanasovik]

Sardashvili impose caucasian pace and some wrestling techniques, makes sophisticated unorthodox style... I expect a lot of him this cycle.

Abe doesn't have competition only Vieru can give threats to him.

Lombardo is ready for big things, mentally and physically grown up, entered prime time.

Grigashvili are more offensive/aggresive judoka, someone like Lee-Jon give him threats but overall I'm going with him.

Tough decision but I going with another georgian Bekauri to defend olympic gold on experience.

Nice odds on Kotsoiev.

Riner to write a history.

 

[RJ Green]

 

[TheFakeMacoy]

Damn, Deguchi (Kelly, Christa's younger sister) has Abe in her first match tomorrow. Best Deguchi will be able to hope for is bronze, then.