Judo Official Judo Thread

Qing Tian brought up a great point about Kazushi that I'd like to re-iterate:

I think citrus belts assume that black belts have this superhuman ability to rip people off of their feet. nah. we're just really good at making you throw yourself, and the best of us are really good at being subtle about it.

this is where the timing comes in, and why feints are amazing.

now, yeah, a strong player can produce 100% of the force needed to throw you, but that's wasteful and inefficient. we're all about minimum effort, maximum efficiency. so that's where you start fucking with people's balance and reactions.

want to throw somebody forward? push them backwards. if they don't want to move, they have to counteract that impulse with the same amount of force in the opposite direction. they're already committing to the direction you wanted them to move, but now instead of having to use YOUR power to move them, you get to ADD your power to the motion.

same thing with osotogari - i set this up with a big pull upwards and towards my chest. uke doesn't want to move forward, so they sit back to counteract the force. sweet! i've already anticipated this, which means that i commit forward as they commit backward.

this is great for so many reasons - if uke is already applying 50% of the force i need to throw them, i just need to add another 50%. i still have 50% in the tank for later, or i can throw them with 150% of the force.

this is what the old balls footsweepers are doing when they play. this is why they're doing that 1000-yard-stare over your shoulder. they're using their proprioception to feel where your balance is, then subtly manipulating the direction with their grips and timing.

a good judoka will lull uke into the false sense that they have control of their movement, posture, balance, and initiative. guess what?

itsatrap.jpg
 


There is a better video of Mifune doing randori, and throwing the gaijin with hiza guruma a couple times (think it was Charlie Palmer). Unfortunately the versions I could find on YouTube have shitty resolution. But when I saw Mifune do the throw it instantly clicked for me on how it works.
 
Bluesbreaker said:
Can anyone confirm for me what rules will have been used at the most recent All Japan? Full IJF rules? Hybrid rules? I don't think they were older Kodokan rules.
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I've seen some videos, and it seems they used IJF rules (no touching below the belt, golden score ecc.).
 
Bluesbreaker said:
Do keep everyone updated on your progress @DatCutman. It's always interesting to read.
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Thanks! I was considering posting in the "older dude starting judo" thread as I'm a few months shy of 30 and just getting into Judo, but I didn't want to hijack it with my ramblings.

Russky said:
If you liked that we can add a few more details:
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I'm printing this out and putting it in my gym bag for open mat this weekend. I can't thank you enough, especially for the self-diagnosis notes. I think there's nothing that drives people to quit or get frustrated more than failing and not knowing why. If I know why I failed, it's fun; then I'm fired up to try it again correctly, or drill it, or stop my opponent from foiling me, or trying to trick them more, or whatever. Not knowing why things are failing makes it into some kind of always punishing skinner box. Thanks again!

RJ Green said:
want to throw somebody forward? push them backwards. if they don't want to move, they have to counteract that impulse with the same amount of force in the opposite direction. they're already committing to the direction you wanted them to move, but now instead of having to use YOUR power to move them, you get to ADD your power to the motion.
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Holy crap. I think I'm borderline retarded. I've just been trying to catch people by surprise with my osoto gari, but now it makes sense why I've been getting my shit pushed in. I'm unsubtle-ly just mashing in, which makes them mash back in the opposite direction, which not only botches the kuzushi but usually puts me on my ass instead. Jesus, what a mind trip.

QingTian said:


There is a better video of Mifune doing randori, and throwing the gaijin with hiza guruma a couple times (think it was Charlie Palmer). Unfortunately the versions I could find on YouTube have shitty resolution. But when I saw Mifune do the throw it instantly clicked for me on how it works.
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I'm going to have to watch that about a thousand times, but the "wheel" aspect in his demo is incredibly apparent.


You judo thread people are good people.
 
DatCutman said:
You judo thread people are good people.
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Judo humbles :)

For osoto the beginners usually do two mistakes:
First, gripping with five fingers that I mentioned and stiff arms as the result. If you have stiff arms you push your partner away as you come into the throw. Shake your arms before trying osoto to make sure they are not stiff.
Second, attacking while standing face to face. For osoto your starting position should be right foot against partners right (thanks @QingTian!) foot. You either move to the side yourself, or set partner up to that position with some other attack.
 
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QingTian said:
^ you mean right foot against right foot.
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I think he means left from my perspective (camera left), opponent's right (stage right).

The five vs. three fingers thing is something I didn't know! I've been going all five pretty much this entire time. Stiff arming is something I've desperately tried to avoid since my start, so I'll add "3 finger grip" into my mental checklist. I googled "how not to be a dick in Judo" before my first class and have put a lot of mental energy into not stiff arming, not turning into a hunchback with my butt out, not just standing there but instead moving around (which is hard when I'm gasping for air after a few rounds of randori), not spazzing out during throw practice (i.e., accept the throw instead of resisting it), and breakfalls for my own safety.

I'm not the throw machine I hoped to be by this point, and I get chucked around quite a bit, but it's fun anyway. The upside is that the higher rank people don't have a look of dread on their face when it's time to randori.
 
Half marathon training has upped my cardio and therefore made the rust fall off quicker....

Have not felt so good (even when senior players are kicking my ass) in a long time.

Might have to finally test for Ikkyu and get closer to shodan...
 
Do you guys have any tips for training with uncooperative partners?

Recently I stopped going to judo class partly as I had other priorities and partly out of frustration with larger adult beginners that that never got comfortable falling.

However my schedule opened up so I'm considering going back.
 
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A Muse of Fire said:
Do you guys have an suggestions to get the most out of training with people that are uncooperative and resistant even doing uchikomi/ nagekomi?

Recently I stopped going to judo class partly as I had other priorities and partly out of frustration with uncooperative training partners and my coaches insistence on paring me up with people much larger than myself
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That's very frustrating. I could tell you bullshit like "just use their strength against them; it's super easy; do tomoe nage; blaaaa bla" them but I would be lying.

For uchikomi / Nagekomi 1) tell them to loosen up. These exercises are not designed for a resisting uke so they are not doing the exercise properly. Period. Then, when 1) fails, 2) just use more strength. There are ways to do uchikomi / nage komi using proper form and strength, but it means that it is much slower and that you usually control their grip first.

Then, for randori, no magic. Don't let them establish grip and establish yours. This is very physical. Discover the positions where you are strong and they are weak. Discover which throws you can use once you control your opponent's posture and focus on them.

Either that or let judo nerds on the internet / youtube convince you that you are doing it wrong and that you should focus on I don't know what, come back in 2 years frustrated and realise that a certain level of brute strength is necessary in judo.
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
That's very frustrating. I could tell you bullshit like "just use their strength against them; it's super easy; do tomoe nage; blaaaa bla" them but I would be lying.

For uchikomi / Nagekomi 1) tell them to loosen up. These exercises are not designed for a resisting uke so they are not doing the exercise properly. Period. Then, when 1) fails, 2) just use more strength. There are ways to do uchikomi / nage komi using proper form and strength, but it means that it is much slower and that you usually control their grip first.

Then, for randori, no magic. Don't let them establish grip and establish yours. This is very physical. Discover the positions where you are strong and they are weak. Discover which throws you can use once you control your opponent's posture and focus on them.

Either that or let judo nerds on the internet / youtube convince you that you are doing it wrong and that you should focus on I don't know what, come back in 2 years frustrated and realise that a certain level of brute strength is necessary in judo.
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Thanks, telling them to relax is a good idea.

I'm less frustrated about randori because it is difficult for everyone and I do look for favorable positions already.

However being met with resistance during drills makes me feel like my time is being wasted.

I'm getting a bit older and have less time to waste it feels like.
 
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Every year the rules get more and more restrictive, is there any chance that some of the techniques that are now restricted will be reinstated?
 
A Muse of Fire said:
Thanks, telling them to relax is a good idea.
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It is a good idea that won't work. They tense up because they are afraid of falling. This is natural, and they cannot do anything about that. Here are a few things that work:
- Explaining them how to land correctly and make their mind concentrate on that.
For example, I do tai-otoshi, but I do not actually throw them, but just turn and ask them to do the ukemi roll over my leg. Then we continue doing that increasing speed and amplitude.
Or we do osoto-gari, and I ask them to concentrate on slapping. We start slow and I increase the force and speed as it feels comfortable.
- Ask them to tense up from the beginning. Throwing someone who tensed up from the start is easier than someone who tenses up in the process. This might be difficult for beginners as you need to break their jigotai.
- Crash pads are great for adult beginners
 
Daniel Fox said:
Every year the rules get more and more restrictive
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No they don't. The newaza rules are a lot less stupid and they're specifically trying to minimize ref interference, but okay.


Daniel Fox said:
is there any chance that some of the techniques that are now restricted will be reinstated?
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Probably, but why care? Its silly to worry about the Olympic rules unless you're trying to be an Olympian. Wanna learn ankle picks? Learn ankle picks. If your club 'bans' techniques, find another one.

Nobody should care about the IJF. It's a ponzi scheme cartel game of grab ass for weasely sports union types.
 
RJ Green said:
No they don't. The newaza rules are a lot less stupid and they're specifically trying to minimize ref interference, but okay.




Probably, but why care? Its silly to worry about the Olympic rules unless you're trying to be an Olympian. Wanna learn ankle picks? Learn ankle picks. If your club 'bans' techniques, find another one.

Nobody should care about the IJF. It's a ponzi scheme cartel game of grab ass for weasely sports union types.
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Bro in Germany all clubs follow that shit.
You are not seeing ankle pick or kata guruma in any club in germany.
 
A Muse of Fire said:
Thanks, telling them to relax is a good idea.

I'm less frustrated about randori because it is difficult for everyone and I do look for favorable positions already.

However being met with resistance during drills makes me feel like my time is being wasted.

I'm getting a bit older and have less time to waste it feels like.
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Yeah that's frustrating. Sometimes it's completely involuntary as they are that stiff and their reflex is to tense up.

One other thing you can do in addition to asking them to relax is to ask them to change their normal grip. Instead of normal grips, have them rest their hands on your shoulders. That way even if they tense up, they're not restricting your entries into your throw.
 
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