Official Judo Thread VIII

Nose, deviated septum broken repeatedly in boxing and jiu jitsu.

I breathe slightly better post-surgery, but not as much as I hoped. Kind of bummed about that. Allegedly I will breathe easier over the next few weeks as turbinate swelling decreases ... they smashed the turbinate bones inward to make more breathing space.
 
Awesome Z. Everybody should do Judo. It's awesome.

I did the first half of my brown belt grading last night. It was the groundwork portion, had to demonstrate the French drill, chokes, armbars, and some randori. Tuesday will be stand up.

I don't get too excited over belts but I'm excited about this one, my yellow belt was the first promotion my sensei did after he got his shodan and it's cool to get my last color belt from the same guy. Here, Dan gradings are done by a board of black belts.
 
Mine's so broken my nostrils sag. If I wanted to get surgery they'd have to take part of my ear and flare out my nose. I asked if they'd just bore out the nasal aperture (nose hole) and he said they don't that anymore because sometimes it'd go too deep and pop a chunk out :eek:

what was the recovery like for you? how's your breathing regardless?

Zankou said:
Nose, deviated septum broken repeatedly in boxing and jiu jitsu.

I breathe slightly better post-surgery, but not as much as I hoped. Kind of bummed about that. Allegedly I will breathe easier over the next few weeks as turbinate swelling decreases ... they smashed the turbinate bones inward to make more breathing space.
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Onq said:
I can agree if its situated like that.
It depends on the focus of the training and the period.
In general, a grappler dont need the strength level of a powerlifter.
The grappler also would need to execute a lift with a certain speed, so slow, maximum effort has it benefits for a very short time, during the year.
Multiple angles lifts will do a great favor, reinforcing the tendons and small muscles, providing better balance and smaller injury risk.
But there is a time for everything.
I believe Zankou just wants to get buff :)
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No, a judoka or grappler in general doesn't have to be as strong as a powerlifter but if you want to know how to get strong you should probably follow similar protocols that the strongest people in the world use. You also keep saying slow lifts don't translate but they aren't trying to lift it slowly. It is just so much that they can't lift it quickly(big difference). I agree with Uchi mostly and it should be periodized doing what your saying closer to maybe competition while using the big 3 for "off season" to get a good baseline of strength and just maintain that strength. Without adequate calorie intake they will not bulk up or gain weight either so that wouldn't or at least shouldn't be an issue.
 
Hmm well I asked to look exactly the same, but it's slightly straighter. Basically the septum was smashed all the way over to the side internally, resting against the bone, and then it bent back across the other way (!). Total mess inside, even though you couldn't tell much from outside. Couldn't breathe an iota through one side, and only a little bit through the other. Also I had to learn to speak differently after I first started boxing because everybody thought I had a cold due to nasal droning effect.

If your septum is not blocking your air flow, then there's not much they would do to improve breathing besides reduce the turbinates, and that's not worth getting surgery.

Now it's still not straight at all internally, but at least I can breathe through both sides. They straightened the septum to open up the closed side, then they break down the turbinates on both sides, and finally they connect the septum back to the cartilage on the nose tip. They didn't fix the internal break I still have at the top of the septum because that would require 'open' rhinoplasty, a much bigger deal, basically they slice your nose and peel it up then do the surgery.

If you want to change the external appearance of your nose (cosmetic rhinoplasty), that's a whole separate ball of wax, far more expensive and difficult.

Recovery was a breeze, despite what I'd heard, honestly I think people are just wusses, I didn't even use the pain meds they gave me and didn't take any painkillers in fact. It's not like surgery was any worse than breaking it in the first place, and it's not like I wasn't already used to terrible breathing. Breathing is okay now, but I still don't feel like it's that great ... maybe I have just become accustomed to being a mouthbreather with instant access to huge quantities of that sweet O2 goodness.
 
Mcmoon said:
No, a judoka or grappler in general doesn't have to be as strong as a powerlifter but if you want to know how to get strong you should probably follow similar protocols that the strongest people in the world use. You also keep saying slow lifts don't translate but they aren't trying to lift it slowly. It is just so much that they can't lift it quickly(big difference). I agree with Uchi mostly and it should be periodized doing what your saying closer to maybe competition while using the big 3 for "off season" to get a good baseline of strength and just maintain that strength. Without adequate calorie intake they will not bulk up or gain weight either so that wouldn't or at least shouldn't be an issue.
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It's probably worth noting that the most successful powerlifting program I know of, Westside, incorporates a ton of speed work because being fast out of the bottom on the squat and deadlift is the key to lifting really, really heavy weight.

One thing I forgot about when discussing training was strongman training, which I like better than powerlifting for martial artists. I was probably at my strongest for grappling when I was doing a lot of heavy tire flips and such. Brutal workouts, but very good for anaerobic and aerobic stamina as well as full body coordination under stress.
 
Power = force X velocity. That being the case, an increase in force - even if velocity remains same, should result in an increase in power. It gets a bit more complicated than this (there's a point at which force aka strength in this example begins to impede velocity due to fibre type / pennation etc; see force velocity curve).

Long story short: extra strength is good upto a point; after that, an overspecialisation is probably not going to return optimal yield if power is the chief interest.

The question remains: is generic power training sufficient or do we need specific power training methods? I don't think anyone has really compared this (IAJR maybe?) but if so, I would like to see it.

Note: powerlifting should really be called strength lifting; velocity isn't a major component (when compared to O-lifts, plyos etc for example)
 
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Uchi Mata said:
It's probably worth noting that the most successful powerlifting program I know of, Westside, incorporates a ton of speed work because being fast out of the bottom on the squat and deadlift is the key to lifting really, really heavy weight.

One thing I forgot about when discussing training was strongman training, which I like better than powerlifting for martial artists. I was probably at my strongest for grappling when I was doing a lot of heavy tire flips and such. Brutal workouts, but very good for anaerobic and aerobic stamina as well as full body coordination under stress.
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Most strong men started out as powerlifters so their base strength still came mostly from the big 3 but I don't disagree with you. I have good numbers for my weight and I've had people comment on how strong I am when grappling. I think it comes down to getting that baseline of strength while still steadily continuing to grapple so you learn to apply that strength in a grappling context.
 
Kbits said:
The question remains: is generic power training sufficient or do we need specific power training methods? I don't think anyone has really compared this (IAJR maybe?) but if so, I would like to see it.
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The ex Eastern Bloc methodologists have done plenty of researches on the subject in the 50s and the 60s. And there are tons of materials on the issue, which you can find in any sport academy in the East.
Those programs I have mentioned are not my invention. I just do some customizing.
 
Mcmoon said:
No, a judoka or grappler in general doesn't have to be as strong as a powerlifter but if you want to know how to get strong you should probably follow similar protocols that the strongest people in the world use. You also keep saying slow lifts don't translate but they aren't trying to lift it slowly. It is just so much that they can't lift it quickly(big difference). I agree with Uchi mostly and it should be periodized doing what your saying closer to maybe competition while using the big 3 for "off season" to get a good baseline of strength and just maintain that strength. Without adequate calorie intake they will not bulk up or gain weight either so that wouldn't or at least shouldn't be an issue.
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Do you know how long is the "off season" of an international competitor?
Notice the "very short time during the year" quote in my previous post, please.
How long does it take to actually get any significant strength gains in PL? Do you have that time in competitive grappling?
As for calorie intake, thats entirely different matter.
Also, please remember, that in wrestling/ judo/ sambo, the weight cut before competition is signifficant...
 
Do you guys find that weight lifting makes much of a difference to your grappling strength over just doing body weight exercises?

I know that's a noob101 question but I'm just curious.
 
Judo Thai Boxer said:
Do you guys find that weight lifting makes much of a difference to your grappling strength over just doing body weight exercises?

I know that's a noob101 question but I'm just curious.
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During periods where I've done a lot of heavy deadlifting and squatting I noticed I was harder to sweep and had better posture in guard in general. That's really about it. I think circuit training was much better for grappling than powerlifting was.
 
Onq said:
Do you know how long is the "off season" of an international competitor?
Notice the "very short time during the year" quote in my previous post, please.
How long does it take to actually get any significant strength gains in PL? Do you have that time in competitive grappling?
As for calorie intake, thats entirely different matter.
Also, please remember, that in wrestling/ judo/ sambo, the weight cut before competition is signifficant...
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how long the off season is but the length of time it takes a powerlifter add a couple pounds to the bar can take a good while but we arent talking about elite strength athletes we are talking about grapplers. Anyone else can can add pounds or strength within a fraction of that time. My calorie comment was directed at someone else's comment. I'm aware that they cut weight. Some powerlifters cut weight as well. I'm by no means a top competitor but I have cut weight for bjj, judo and mma.
 
Onq said:
Thats standard :)
My japanese judo coaches were always having a cig break between randori rounds.
And my british boxing coach, from a few years ago, was practically spending his entire coaching sessions, chain smoking at the entrance of the gym, while cursing and yelling instructions.
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American wrestlers do a lot of dipping tobacco (similar to snuff, except put in the mouth and hung onto for a while; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipping_tobacco).

They ain't got the time and inclination to go outside in the cold winters, so they get their nicotine deliveries this way.
 
gorillajump said:
American wrestlers do a lot of dipping tobacco (similar to snuff, except put in the mouth and hung onto for a while; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipping_tobacco).

They ain't got the time and inclination to go outside in the cold winters, so they get their nicotine deliveries this way.
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This is true!

Same goes for my two friends that are 'Frogs' (not the French kind) they dip for obvious reasons when down range.
 
Onq said:
What I was refering to, was that PL doesnt use ballistic exercises or high rep training methods, which is what you need for grappling. Of course you could be supplementing with big lift here and there, but that should not be the focus of the training.
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True. I don't think athletes should be training near max in the manner that PLers frequently do, and I'm assuming that's what you meant too.
 
Kbits said:
Note: powerlifting should really be called strength lifting; velocity isn't a major component (when compared to O-lifts, plyos etc for example)
Click to expand...

Eh, if you see powerlifters ramping up to their max, you'll notice that their 60-80% stuff are REALLY fast. This is most noticeable with the deadlift.

If you're moving weight that's near your max, you'll be slow because it's fucking heavy. The same is true for Oly lifters doing PR attempts. They look lightning fast when they're doing light weight, but really slow when they do PRs.
 
Judo Thai Boxer said:
Do you guys find that weight lifting makes much of a difference to your grappling strength over just doing body weight exercises?

I know that's a noob101 question but I'm just curious.
Click to expand...

I can out-muscle and stall pretty much everyone up to a brown belt when it comes to newaza at my school, provided that they have no more than 20lb+ on me. Afaik, none of them do strength training or have a labor intensive job, so I am stronger.

There is a brown belt who used to choke me out with ease. I did newaza with him last month (after about 2-3 months of not doing it with him), and I held my own against him simply through strength. He attempts to get me into some sort of position; I just post my leg and prevent him. He attempts to pin me; I just force enough space to move him off. Essentially, however stronger I got within that 2-3 month period was enough to invalidate whatever skill advantage he had over me.

To be fair, the dude had an injured leg, and I'm not claiming that strength>technique. It's just that if he was as strong as I am, then I would have had literally no chance at all.

I've noticed no real benefit from my strength when it comes to stand-up, save only that I can actually move people around better and be able to actually get throws through because my muscles were better conditioned.
 
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