Official Judo Thread VIII

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

I have only been hit with the wrestling version, so I guess I am lucky.

It is one of my favorite throws and I have always stopped in the middle of it and put down my uke gently, if I have hit it in randori.
Never attempted it in competition (always going for drop kataguruma instead) but I have thrown a guy over a bar table with it.
The feeling, when you are face down, paralel to the ground at 1,80 cm in the air, understanding that the landing part depends entirely on your opponent, is... terrifying...

 

[Thai Otoshi]

The feeling, when you are face down, paralel to the ground at 1,80 cm in the air, understanding that the landing part depends entirely on your opponent, is... terrifying...

BOOM!

This is exactly why I think old school kata guruma is scary as shit to be uke for.

The only thing between you and eating from a straw, best case scenario, is the control and good will of your training partner.

 

[magick]

I also learned the ippon seoinage on the first day of judo.

Ippon seoinage and o-goshi, to be specific. Both of them emphasize the basic principles of judo well enough for beginners.

The most painful throw I ever took was a harai goshi that hit me completely by surpise. No ukemi on my part and I absorbed the entirety of the impact on my back. It... was interesting.

I really dislike taking foot sweeps. They tend to come out of nowhere and you can't even use proper ukemi against it.

 

[Darkslide632]

Yoko gake is, in my opinion, the hardest throw in Judo. Most people I've ever talked with have never been hit with a good yoko gake. Every single person I've talked with who has, agrees.

It is the only throw I've ever been thrown with that nearly knocked me out. I had never been hit so hard in my life, and I still haven't after 20 years.

Once, while doing a Judo demonstration at a local middle school, I accidently threw my uke completely over the mats with tomoe nage, where he landed on the concrete floor. In response, he picked me up on his shoulders, carried me OFF the mats and dumped me onto the concrete with kata guruma. The impact wasn't even close.

There isn't another throw like it. Thankfully you almost never see it.

 

[Einarr]

Yoko gake is, in my opinion, the hardest throw in Judo. Most people I've ever talked with have never been hit with a good yoko gake. Every single person I've talked with who has, agrees.

It is the only throw I've ever been thrown with that nearly knocked me out. I had never been hit so hard in my life, and I still haven't after 20 years.

Once, while doing a Judo demonstration at a local middle school, I accidently threw my uke completely over the mats with tomoe nage, where he landed on the concrete floor. In response, he picked me up on his shoulders, carried me OFF the mats and dumped me onto the concrete with kata guruma. The impact wasn't even close.

There isn't another throw like it. Thankfully you almost never see it.

Why would you let a dude Kata Guruma you on concrete!?

 

[Darkslide632]

lol. Well, I had no idea he was going to do it, to be honest. The mats they had when we got there were very small. One of those fold up blue mats for gymnastics...

Kata guruma was the next throw in the demo. He just picked me up, nonchalantly took a step to the side and dumped me. We had a pretty good laugh about it afterward, but it hurt like a bastard in the moment. He told me that it hurt so bad when he hit the ground after my tomoe nage, he had to keep repeating to himself "Just don't shit yourself" over and over in his head.

 

[Einarr]

lol. Well, I had no idea he was going to do it, to be honest. The mats they had when we got there were very small. One of those fold up blue mats for gymnastics...

Kata guruma was the next throw in the demo. He just picked me up, nonchalantly took a step to the side and dumped me. We had a pretty good laugh about it afterward, but it hurt like a bastard in the moment. He told me that it hurt so bad when he hit the ground after my tomoe nage, he had to keep repeating to himself "Just don't shit yourself" over and over in his head.

What you did was an accident, what he did was plain assault. I'd have choked that fucker retarded.

 

[RJ Green]

katagurbooma - starts off like a normal kataguruma, but instead of dumping them over, backstep and spin towards the direction of their feet so you whip their shoulders/head at the ground

:icon_twis

 

[Darkslide632]

What you did was an accident, what he did was plain assault. I'd have choked that fucker retarded.

If he wasn't a friend of mine, I'm sure I would have at some point. I just chalked it up to good ol' one-upmanship, and he won.

If you had someone up for kata guruma, and you just released their legs and sacrificed with a standing yoko ukemi-ish movement, THEN kata guruma would be the winner. Isn't that kind of what Brock lesnar or someone from the WWE had for a finisher? Haha

 

[QingTian]

Agree on yoko gake. Plus you seem to always land on your head no matter what.

Now there is a throw I don't understand yet. Yup!

It's said that to judge a nage no kata, all you have to do is look at yoko gake. If the pair has a good yoko gake, then the rest will be good too.

 

[CALIAMA]

Hey, I started Judo in Va Beach at Kempsville Rec with David Kennedy. He probably knows you. It was an okay club, my real training happened when I met Ari at Hybrid Training Center, now USA Stars East Judo.

Yeah,
I know Dave. He's a good dude and I still keep in touch with him. Do you ever do any training with VA Academy of Judo? They're a great group also. My family and I are trying to come back to VA after this tour.

 

[CALIAMA]

So this question might be highly insulting if I'm off base, but I don't mean any disrespect.

Do you teach some techniques, not for their applicability, but because they develop certain attributes?

For example, your Kesa Escape number 2 in my opinion wouldn't work at all on someone holding Kesa correctly, so are you teaching it so that people are aware of it when holding Kesa on someone else?

Also, Ippon Seoinagi is probably one of the top most frightening throws. Why teach it at the beginning? Is it a weed-out tool or a conditioning tool?

I don't view your comment as disrespectful. This is what I meant by constructive criticism/debate. I try to teach all of the techniques and let the student determine what works best for them. My philosophy of teaching is a bit different than the standard "I'm the Sensei, therefore you will do it my way only." I show you my technique, have you practice and work with it, and if you feel that you have a way to improve or do it differently, I'll listen and try. If your way works better, we'll incorporate it.

I try to leave ego at the door. I'm pretty uncomfortable with my students calling me Sensei. I don't discourage it, but I prefer either Coach, or my first name. That's just me.

I believe all techniques should be taught.. especially the ones banned by IJF. I'm a follower of the Freestyle Judo movement and feel that IJF is taking so much of Judo away, and I'm afraid that these techniques could be lost forever.

Seoi Nage is in my curriculum for adults. Most of my adult students are young and athletic and have no problems with it. It is definitely not a weed-out technique. Ippon Seoi Nage was the second throw I learned when I started Judo, so I don't believe that it's anymore difficult than the others at the beginning stages.

 

[seatea]

Yoko gake is, in my opinion, the hardest throw in Judo. Most people I've ever talked with have never been hit with a good yoko gake. Every single person I've talked with who has, agrees.

It is the only throw I've ever been thrown with that nearly knocked me out. I had never been hit so hard in my life, and I still haven't after 20 years.

I've only done it/had it done to me in nage-no-kata, that's bad enough.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Yoko gake is, in my opinion, the hardest throw in Judo. Most people I've ever talked with have never been hit with a good yoko gake. Every single person I've talked with who has, agrees.

It is the only throw I've ever been thrown with that nearly knocked me out. I had never been hit so hard in my life, and I still haven't after 20 years.

Once, while doing a Judo demonstration at a local middle school, I accidently threw my uke completely over the mats with tomoe nage, where he landed on the concrete floor. In response, he picked me up on his shoulders, carried me OFF the mats and dumped me onto the concrete with kata guruma. The impact wasn't even close.

There isn't another throw like it. Thankfully you almost never see it.

Every time I hit yokogake, people land on their faces. There was only this one case, when the uke went vertical in the air, waist height and landed flat on his back, knocking all the air out of his lungs. I was never able to catch that perfect timing before or after. The guy was a BJJ practitioner and had zero ukemi

Now, for. Kataguruma, most people would land you nicely, bending down and laying you on your back. Try whipping it from shoulder height or falling sacrifice style on his head. Even worst- front salto.

 

[Darkslide632]

They land on their faces because they spin out, or... ?

I've only ever hit one good one, myself. Probably because I never try it, and because I think it is the only throw I can think of that is so hard that I don't feel comfortable throwing it against unsuspecting people.

 

[Mcmoon]

I was taught to do tsurikomi goshi with the elbow in the armpit. I was told it was because it is the one you see in competition and hence more applicable. Is there any advantage to the original or textbook version which seems basically to be a straight arm? Also when I try to do it on left left side it is like I can't hold on to the lapel at all. Grip strength shouldn't be a problem and is probably a positioning issue. Any general tips that could help?

 

[Einarr]

I was taught to do tsurikomi goshi with the elbow in the armpit. I was told it was because it is the one you see in competition and hence more applicable. Is there any advantage to the original or textbook version which seems basically to be a straight arm? Also when I try to do it on left left side it is like I can't hold on to the lapel at all. Grip strength shouldn't be a problem and is probably a positioning issue. Any general tips that could help?

Don't use the elbow in the armpit. Tsurikomi Goshi is, essentially, the base for Uchi Mata and Harai Goshi - get decent at your Tsurimoni Goshi and it will improve your Uchi Mata/Harai Goshi. But it's not really a throw for shiai because there's no reason not to turn it into a Harai/Uchi if you get in place to in a competition. With that said Uchi Mata/Harai Goshi are almost always done with the high elbow when using a collar grip (specically a HCG), otherwise with a over-the-back grip. So practice your Tsurimoni Goshi with a high elbow HCG or an over the back grip.

 

[Mcmoon]

Don't use the elbow in the armpit. Tsurikomi Goshi is, essentially, the base for Uchi Mata and Harai Goshi - get decent at your Tsurimoni Goshi and it will improve your Uchi Mata/Harai Goshi. But it's not really a throw for shiai because there's no reason not to turn it into a Harai/Uchi if you get in place to in a competition. With that said Uchi Mata/Harai Goshi are almost always done with the high elbow when using a collar grip (specically a HCG), otherwise with a over-the-back grip. So practice your Tsurimoni Goshi with a high elbow HCG or an over the back grip.

Don't do a whole lot of uchi matas at the moment but when I do use harai I prefer the HCG. I was told that tsurikomi goshi was the basis for harai and uchimata though and are what you are mostly going to see in competition.

Are you saying don't use the elbow in the armpit because it doesn't carry over as well to harai and uchimata or just because it is bad?

 

[Einarr]

Don't do a whole lot of uchi matas at the moment but when I do use harai I prefer the HCG. I was told that tsurikomi goshi was the basis for harai and uchimata though and are what you are mostly going to see in competition.

Are you saying don't use the elbow in the armpit because it doesn't carry over as well to harai and uchimata or just because it is bad?

IMO, Tsurikomi Goshi (not SODE Tsurikomi Goshi) is just a training tool for getting your entry and hip placement for Uchi Mata and Harai Goshi. If you throw Harai Goshi with a HCG and a high elbow then that's how you should throw your Tsurikomi Goshi when practicing it, if you throw Harai with an over the back grip then that's how you should practice your Tsurikomi Goshi.

The only time you see Tsurikomi Goshi in shiai is when uke has gone flying before the reaping leg has entered.

 

[RJ Green]

yoko gake sucks because there's constant acceleration for uke. even if you're ready for the fall they usually bind up your gi or have hold of your wrists in such a manner that you can't make falling easier.

in almost every judo throw, you throw uke to the ground. in yoko gake, you hit uke WITH the ground.