Multiplat Official Fallout 76 Discussion

[Fijeeto]

70+ hours in and still loving the game despite its obvious flaws. Strangely, for a game that got me excited about its multiplayer component, Im having even more fun playing solo.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

Here is the problem. Bethesda rolled out Fallout 76 is an unfinished state, on purpose, while billing it as a AAA bad ass game, while at the same time stripping a flagship title of everything that most Fallout fans thought was fun for the last 20 years, while using Todd Howard as a high profile shill to sell it to the masses for $60. People are going to be fucking mad. Not because the game sucks but because they were lied to. I can guarantee you NOBODY at Bethesda thought this was going to go well and they did it anyhow. Now they are backtracking and lowering the price of the game almost immediately after release to try to play a little clean up.

And the best part about it is that every single person that paid for this game deserved to lose their money.

How many more times do they get to do this before people learn? They have not made a remotely decent game since Skyrim and Dishonored in 2012 and have taken a great deal of time fixing what they have been making while injecting ever more DLC for things that should have been in game...hell, they even outright STOLE ideas for Fallout 4 from mod makers.

The company has turned to shit over the last 5ish years and will continue until people speak with their wallets.

 

[MusterX]

And the best part about it is that every single person that paid for this game deserved to lose their money.

How many more times do they get to do this before people learn? They have not made a remotely decent game since Skyrim and Dishonored in 2012 and have taken a great deal of time fixing what they have been making while injecting ever more DLC for things that should have been in game...hell, they even outright STOLE ideas for Fallout 4 from mod makers.

The company has turned to shit over the last 5ish years and will continue until people speak with their wallets.

What gets me is how much they avoid making new iterations of their flagship titles like Elder Scrolls and Fallout. They know that the Bethesda fan base wants Elder Scrolls 6 or Fallout 5, so do they do it and make mad cash on sales? Nope, in fact they seem quite resistant to the idea especially with Elder Scrolls 6 which they only seemed to begrudgingly say they were working on but its going to be a long time away before release, like years. Skyrim released Nov. 2011 and we are going on 2019. It just blows my mind these companies will circle the drain and it doesn't even seem like they know why they are circling the drain.

I'm not saying Bethesda is going bankrupt but they are going down further by the year. We see the same thing with a company like Blizzard who made its two flagship titles Diablo and World of Warcraft, both of which they seem to be neglecting big-time and their fan base sees it. I blame cell phones almost as much as anything because everything has to be on mobile now and these big PC game makers like Bethesda and Blizzard want to cash in on the mobile market. It has hurt PC gamers almost as much as anything you can name. They still do it though, blind to the fans that brought them to the dance.

Blizzard gets up on sage to announce Diablo Immortal for cell phones like they are so proud of what they are doing and all it takes is one fan to smack them down.

 

[Shoemaker]

What gets me is how much they avoid making new iterations of their flagship titles like Elder Scrolls and Fallout. They know that the Bethesda fan base wants Elder Scrolls 6 or Fallout 5, so do they do it and make mad cash on sales? Nope, in fact they seem quite resistant to the idea especially with Elder Scrolls 6 which they only seemed to begrudgingly say they were working on but its going to be a long time away before release, like years. Skyrim released Nov. 2011 and we are going on 2019. It just blows my mind these companies will circle the drain and it doesn't even seem like they know why they are circling the drain.

I'm not saying Bethesda is going bankrupt but they are going down further by the year. We see the same thing with a company like Blizzard who made its two flagship titles Diablo and World of Warcraft, both of which they seem to be neglecting big-time and their fan base sees it. I blame cell phones almost as much as anything because everything has to be on mobile now and these big PC game makers like Bethesda and Blizzard want to cash in on the mobile market. It has hurt PC gamers almost as much as anything you can name. They still do it though, blind to the fans that brought them to the dance.

Blizzard gets up on sage to announce Diablo Immortal for cell phones like they are so proud of what they are doing and all it takes is one fan to smack them down.

So much of the issue is with the messaging. Blizzard made the mistake of announcing this directly to their hardcore fanbase which paid money to be there. Not a great idea. Bethesda did it a bit different by making Fallout 76 and calling it Fallout, imo. If a different company makes that same game with a different name, we wouldn't even hear about it. So it's all about how these companies have communicated (or not) with their existing audience. I think if Blizzard announced Diablo Immortal in a tweet instead of at the end of Blizzcon, the perception is better. Still disappointment, but no feelings of being misled.

Valve is a good example. No one really bitches that Valve is adding new social features to Steam instead of making Half Life 3. It's more of a general disappointment. But Valve hasn't done things like say they're going to have a "huge announcement" and it ends up being Steam Broadcasting. Valve does a pretty good job of not stringing their audience along. No one is working on Half Life 3. No one is probably going to work on Half Life 3. Furthermore, they're not slapping Half Life IP onto a sub-par experience and capitalizing on the mass-anticipation for some kind of new Half Life.

I don't really have an issue the moves either company has made (aside from being disappointed that I don't have a new fun Fallout game and won't be getting a new Diablo PC game for awhile) but the way they've presented the products to players leaves a lot to be desired and I have a hard time feeling sorry for them given those mistake. Trying to break through to a new market? Just tell your existing fan base that. They don't have to but it will certainly help with goodwill. Be honest with the players, and even if they don't buy that game they might buy the next two because they still trust you.




edit: Fallout Shelter is actually a good example of it being done right, as well. There was no mistaking it: it was a mobile game and it wasn't traditional Fallout. It was also really good, so there's that too. But even if it wasn't, I don't think it would've been anything other than a bad game that people called bad. It wouldn't have been source of mistrust.

To be fair to Bethesda in this, they did release a beta and everyone complained. Anyone who purchased Fallout 76 day 1 and was disappointed either didn't do any research or took the risk. I don't think what Bethesda did here was all that bad, because it's not like they hid the problems. The problems were right there for everyone to see before making a final purchase. And if anyone is still pre-ordering games this day and age, I don't know what to say except "don't".

 

[MusterX]

So much of the issue is with the messaging. Blizzard made the mistake of announcing this directly to their hardcore fanbase which paid money to be there. Not a great idea. Bethesda did it a bit different by making Fallout 76 and calling it Fallout, imo. If a different company makes that same game with a different name, we wouldn't even hear about it. So it's all about how these companies have communicated (or not) with their existing audience. I think if Blizzard announced Diablo Immortal in a tweet instead of at the end of Blizzcon, the perception is better. Still disappointment, but no feelings of being misled.

Valve is a good example. No one really bitches that Valve is adding new social features to Steam instead of making Half Life 3. It's more of a general disappointment. But Valve hasn't done things like say they're going to have a "huge announcement" and it ends up being Steam Broadcasting. Valve does a pretty good job of not stringing their audience along. No one is working on Half Life 3. No one is probably going to work on Half Life 3. Furthermore, they're not slapping Half Life IP onto a sub-par experience and capitalizing on the mass-anticipation for some kind of new Half Life.

I don't really have an issue the moves either company has made (aside from being disappointed that I don't have a new fun Fallout game and won't be getting a new Diablo PC game for awhile) but the way they've presented the products to players leaves a lot to be desired and I have a hard time feeling sorry for them given those mistake. Trying to break through to a new market? Just tell your existing fan base that. They don't have to but it will certainly help with goodwill. Be honest with the players, and even if they don't buy that game they might buy the next two because they still trust you.




edit: Fallout Shelter is actually a good example of it being done right, as well. There was no mistaking it: it was a mobile game and it wasn't traditional Fallout. It was also really good, so there's that too. But even if it wasn't, I don't think it would've been anything other than a bad game that people called bad. It wouldn't have been source of mistrust.

To be fair to Bethesda in this, they did release a beta and everyone complained. Anyone who purchased Fallout 76 day 1 and was disappointed either didn't do any research or took the risk. I don't think what Bethesda did here was all that bad, because it's not like they hid the problems. The problems were right there for everyone to see before making a final purchase. And if anyone is still pre-ordering games this day and age, I don't know what to say except "don't".

I don't really have any argument against what you are saying, I pretty much agree. I will say this though, Blizzard is what it is today because of Diablo/Warcraft/World of Warcraft, Bethesda is what it is today because of Elder Scrolls and Fallout. These titles have sort of been next level as far as sales and fanaticism. Its still almost inconcievable to me how badly both companies try to get away from their own flagship titles. As far as Valve you are right but mostly with Valve its because they are too chicken shit to try to make HL3. Half Life 2 was voted game of the decade and even Valve has admitted they feel no matter what they make it won't stand up to scrutiny.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

I blame cell phones almost as much as anything because everything has to be on mobile now and these big PC game makers like Bethesda and Blizzard want to cash in on the mobile market.

It isnt mobile. Its corporations. You can tie the issues with gaming to the invasion of big money.

A corporation sees "Mobile has the largest gaming market" due to things like Crazy Birds and they think they can somehow translate the big sales dollars of the PC and console markets to it because all they know are the pie charts in front of them.

It is also responsible for the vast increase in incomplete games being released because its all about money invested and the amount of time it takes for a return on their investment and thus release schedules must be met no matter what.

 

[Shoemaker]

I don't really have any argument against what you are saying, I pretty much agree. I will say this though, Blizzard is what it is today because of Diablo/Warcraft/World of Warcraft, Bethesda is what it is today because of Elder Scrolls and Fallout. These titles have sort of been next level as far as sales and fanaticism. Its still almost inconcievable to me how badly both companies try to get away from their own flagship titles. As far as Valve you are right but mostly with Valve its because they are too chicken shit to try to make HL3. Half Life 2 was voted game of the decade and even Valve has admitted they feel no matter what they make it won't stand up to scrutiny.

Yeah I don't blame them for not doing it. It's almost an impossible task to sit down and create HL3. They'll probably make it one day, but it's going to be when they've finally got the right idea and not just to make money. Steam makes enough of that, already, I suppose.

 

[hillelslovak87]

And the best part about it is that every single person that paid for this game deserved to lose their money.

How many more times do they get to do this before people learn? They have not made a remotely decent game since Skyrim and Dishonored in 2012 and have taken a great deal of time fixing what they have been making while injecting ever more DLC for things that should have been in game...hell, they even outright STOLE ideas for Fallout 4 from mod makers.

The company has turned to shit over the last 5ish years and will continue until people speak with their wallets.

I thought Skyrim was the beginning of the downfall. The engine was too old by that point, and it was clear they put little effort into actually evolving the elder scrolls series in any meaningful ways. The game world wasn't anywhere unique as Skyrim or F03. F04 was so bad I couldn't even finish it. It was clear they cared nothing for anything but copy pasting and releasing buggy as fuck games they won't fix fully.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

I thought Skyrim was the beginning of the downfall. The engine was too old by that point, and it was clear they put little effort into actually evolving the elder scrolls series in any meaningful ways.

It wasnt that the game engine was old, it was that the game was built around the PS3 and not the PC and was thus vastly limited both in terms of memory, and twitch combat. The thing about it though is that they at least worked with the modding community at the time so we knew before the game even came out that we(I am a modder) would be able to make the game better. And we did, faster than they did. We had a memory unlocker and high rez skins right after release and made the combat and magic far better.

But look at what they did with games after that, made modding harder and even tried to monetize it, ruining the community.

 

[hillelslovak87]

It wasnt that the game engine was old, it was that the game was built around the PS3 and not the PC and was thus vastly limited both in terms of memory, and twitch combat. The thing about it though is that they at least worked with the modding community at the time so we knew before the game even came out that we(I am a modder) would be able to make the game better. And we did, faster than they did. We had a memory unlocker and high rez skins right after release and made the combat and magic far better.

But look at what they did with games after that, made modding harder and even tried to monetize it, ruining the community.

The creation club, and seeing how they are charging for basic haircuts and shit like that in 76 is the final nail.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

The creation club, and seeing how they are charging for basic haircuts and shit like that in 76 is the final nail.

Good, please dont buy. As I said before, until people speak with their wallets they are just going to keep doing more and more of this bullshit.

 

[HereticBD]

TBH, the outrage reminds me a LOT like the kind that was directed at "Destiny" when it launched, and it was some weird MP game that Halo fans weren't expecting.

Despite the mediocre reviews, and fanboy rage, that game still succeeded. I think FO76 has the same potential. They just better keep up constant support. The only thing that really kills games like this, are developers who don't care to fix any problems. Even ESO was trashed HARD when it launched. It's doing fine now.

You can't judge these type of games in such a short window of time. At least as far as success goes. If you hate it now because of how it feels(not like the FO games), chances are you'll hate it later. Just saying that these games have a different model in mind.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Good, please dont buy. As I said before, until people speak with their wallets they are just going to keep doing more and more of this bullshit.

There is no way I would go near their games at this point. I never bought F04, but played it modded on my cousin's pc. Such a waste of time.

 

[blaseblah]

I thought Skyrim was the beginning of the downfall. The engine was too old by that point, and it was clear they put little effort into actually evolving the elder scrolls series in any meaningful ways.

You must be joking. Skyrim looked beautiful when it came out. They made massive improvements to the engine. This was the first game in the Elder Scrolls/Fallout series where your character actually moved in a realistic manner and didn't look like they were floating off the ground.

You can argue they dumbed down the RPG elements but that's a design decision. Bethesda's issues have had nothing to do with the engine.

Here are the primary things Bethesda needs to work on, long before they even think about a new engine;

1. Fixing bugs. 2. More interesting gameplay. 3. Better characters and story.

 

[tru3f4n]

TBH, the outrage reminds me a LOT like the kind that was directed at "Destiny" when it launched, and it was some weird MP game that Halo fans weren't expecting.

Despite the mediocre reviews, and fanboy rage, that game still succeeded. I think FO76 has the same potential. They just better keep up constant support. The only thing that really kills games like this, are developers who don't care to fix any problems. Even ESO was trashed HARD when it launched. It's doing fine now.

You can't judge these type of games in such a short window of time. At least as far as success goes. If you hate it now because of how it feels(not like the FO games), chances are you'll hate it later. Just saying that these games have a different model in mind.

you have any ideal how long it took them to please their fanbase in D1 and how much of that fanbase they lost when they released Destiny 2? I highly doubt the ppl working on Fallout 76 will go through the stuff the devs at bungie did to try to make their fanbase happy.

 

[HereticBD]

you have any ideal how long it took them to please their fanbase in D1 and how much of that fanbase they lost when they released Destiny 2? I highly doubt the ppl working on Fallout 76 will go through the stuff the devs at bungie did to try to make their fanbase happy.

I can't speak on D2(sounds like they got a bit overconfident in releasing a sequel that wasn't warranted), but Destiny 1 was a massive success, despite the criticism is received.

I don't really know where this will end up, but I think it will eventually settle in and find a dedicated audience. Even if it eventually goes FTP, these MP games usually find a way to make it work. It's only been out a couple of weeks. I'd relax on the doom and gloom predictions.

 

[tru3f4n]

I can't speak on D2(sounds like they got a bit overconfident in releasing a sequel that wasn't warranted), but Destiny 1 was a massive success, despite the criticism is received.

I don't really know where this will end up, but I think it will eventually settle in and find a dedicated audience. Even if it eventually goes FTP, these MP games usually find a way to make it work. It's only been out a couple of weeks. I'd relax on the doom and gloom predictions.

I'm just hoping they don't pull a EA/Bioware and cut and run like those guys did with mass effect andromeda. I ended up deleting it due to finally getting tired of buggy quests it's still early so I'll reinstall it after the next patch but having to jump servers to get quest to work is annoying. Just running around isn't that bad but trying to advance quest line and shit breaking is stupid.

 

[hillelslovak87]

You must be joking. Skyrim looked beautiful when it came out. They made massive improvements to the engine. This was the first game in the Elder Scrolls/Fallout series where your character actually moved in a realistic manner and didn't look like they were floating off the ground.

You can argue they dumbed down the RPG elements but that's a design decision. Bethesda's issues have had nothing to do with the engine.

Here are the primary things Bethesda needs to work on, long before they even think about a new engine;

1. Fixing bugs. 2. More interesting gameplay. 3. Better characters and story.

Skyrim looked rough when it came out, and I don't give a shit about graphics.

Yes, it is a design decision to strip away the complexity of the rpg elements. It happened to be a shitty one.

The stories sucked, and the mission design was often boring, especially in the stormcloak rebellion.

The game was riddled with bugs for years while Bethesda relied upon the modding community to fix it.

It's still a great game, but the engine was showing its age in pretty stark manner.

 

[HereticBD]

I'm just hoping they don't pull a EA/Bioware and cut and run like those guys did with mass effect andromeda. I ended up deleting it due to finally getting tired of buggy quests it's still early so I'll reinstall it after the next patch but having to jump servers to get quest to work is annoying. Just running around isn't that bad but trying to advance quest line and shit breaking is stupid.

Thing is with a game like "ME: Andromeda", is that it doesn't have a constant dedicated player base. It's a single player game. You pretty much get one chance to impress people, and if your core single player game sucks, it doesn't matter how many patches you release to improve the experience. If "ME:A" was a great solo experience, despite the technical issues, it would've done well. It was just shit from top to bottom. Even if that game ran perfectly, it would've failed.

MP games are a different beast altogether. The initial core experience can be basic bitch at launch, but as long as it has something in those rough early days to keep people online, it can only get better.

Of course MP games can fail too. "Star Wars Galaxies" comes to mind. They still have a lot bigger of a window to fix things though. You can't really judge these types of games at launch. They can be disasters at launch, and still pull through.

 

[blaseblah]

Skyrim looked rough when it came out, and I don't give a shit about graphics.

Yes, it is a design decision to strip away the complexity of the rpg elements. It happened to be a shitty one.

The stories sucked, and the mission design was often boring, especially in the stormcloak rebellion.

The game was riddled with bugs for years while Bethesda relied upon the modding community to fix it.

It's still a great game, but the engine was showing its age in pretty stark manner.

Lmao it never looked rough, you have no idea what you're talking about. The engine was a massive improvement in every way. And don't blame the bugs on the engine, that is on Bethesda for not properly play testing their games.