Obama signs anti-propaganda bill on Chirstmas

[ripskater]

I was just about to rant that we are fucked on this issue either way in 2016. Trump isn't principled and certain stances he has taken make me think he would pass similar things I don't agree with, the Muslim registry being one of them. Clinton was a war hawk so I assume she would've been all for NSA surveillance, etc. The fact is, people either don't care enough to vote for pro-rights candidates in the primary or they actually want this type of policy because they easily can be flipped with arguments of national security etc for a power grab of rights.

We are fucked the next four years Rip. This is the party in control who passed the patriot act. Trump despite being very very pro-Russian has declared Snowden a traitor and had harsh sentencing terms for him so I don't think he is going to come in and really reverse course. All we are going to get is one or two bullshit fillbuster nights from Rand Paul that makes the news and doesn't matter cause the bill still passes. Nothing changes with this cause both parties easily concede the rights when they get the power.

Well I hope your wrong. And I'm sure you hope so too.

 

[Lead]

Well I hope your wrong. And I'm sure you hope so too.

You could see it in the primary. As much as I disliked Cruz, he was the one out of the three at least campaigning he was against this type of stuff. Trump sided with Rubio who is extremely supportive of NSA, etc. We really didn't have much hope for a candidate on the GOP side unless you belief Cruz meant what he said. I suppose on the left, Bernie may have been against this but I didn't find him to be electable at this point in time. Both parties agree to move the same direction with this issue.

 

[Hans Gercmiov]

I think news networks should be able to put out whatever bullshit they want. They don't have any credibility with me anyway.

 

[Z28LS1L98]

You think obamas fair , what about Trump .....what about the guy 20 years from now ?

" Im sure theres protections in there " , lol! Did you scrutinize your mortgage as thourougly? Incredibly sheeplike mentality youve got there homes , youd fit in like one of those round pegs in China

Yeah u don't? What about trump? I'll tell you 4 years from now. there might be no 20 years from now

 

[SafeSpace]

Wtf? I'm all for uncensored news. But a lot of info out there is fake and is making Americans into idiots. There has to be a balance. lets make America smart again. Stop the spread of garbage info like info wars.

And huffingtonpost / vox type sources

 

[Deleted member 409801]

Yeah u don't? What about trump? I'll tell you 4 years from now. there might be no 20 years from now

I dont trust a fucking one of them , and neither should you. Thats why i think youre nuts to be ok with a" Ministry of truth" , or whatever catchy dystopian name they invent to enforce the further erosion of our freedoms.

 

[Z28LS1L98]

I dont trust a fucking one of them , and neither should you. Thats why i think youre nuts to be ok with a" Ministry of truth" , or whatever catchy dystopian name they invent to enforce the further erosion of our freedoms.

Let me ask you, do you think our government has some kind of bad agenda? You don't think they have the best interests for our country?

 

[Lead]

Let me ask you, do you think our government has some kind of bad agenda? You don't think they have the best interests for our country?

You can assume legislation is put in place with good intentions that ultimately leads to bad ones. You give any group too much power, even for good, and over time, it is likely to be used with a bad result. Even the bad result could be justified with good intentions. The problem is though, the farther you go, the less and less checks we have on the group doing this. We weren't told about the NSA program and we're blatantly lied to about it. Say what you want about them using it to protect us but there is a much graver danger that a part of the government can hide something this large and controversial, lie about it when asked, and have no real consequences for it. I could care less about how good their intentions are at this stage. What I need to know is the checks we have in place are slowly being degraded and people thing they are above our laws/rights.

 

[Deleted member 409801]

Let me ask you, do you think our government has some kind of bad agenda? You don't think they have the best interests for our country?

Let me ask you something , do you think you can predict the nature of our future government reliably?

Ill admit , i have an extremly hard time finding any common ground with someone with such a simple view of things. You quite obviously have a very limited grasp on the histort of both our government and others before us if you dont see the glaring issue with a fucking blank check.

Laughably naive.

Do yourself a favor and read a few books.

 

[Z28LS1L98]

You can assume legislation is put in place with good intentions that ultimately leads to bad ones. You give any group too much power, even for good, and over time, it is likely to be used with a bad result. Even the bad result could be justified with good intentions. The problem is though, the farther you go, the less and less checks we have on the group doing this. We weren't told about the NSA program and we're blatantly lied to about it. Say what you want about them using it to protect us but there is a much graver danger that a part of the government can hide something this large and controversial, lie about it when asked, and have no real consequences for it. I could care less about how good their intentions are at this stage. What I need to know is the checks we have in place are slowly being degraded and people thing they are above our laws/rights.

Did it realy surprise you finding out that the nsa was spying on all of us? You had to assume they were. In this time and age where a dirty bomb could come over and set us in a world war or Ina blame game, you have to know all. I know it sucks but that's the world we live in. The Russians got out nuclear tech because we slept and they got the best of us. And that Olmost set the world in fire(during the Cold War). U have to assume that if it could happen, then it's happening.

 

[Z28LS1L98]

Let me ask you something , do you think you can predict the nature of our future government reliably?

Ill admit , i have an extremly hard time finding any common ground with someone with such a simple view of things. You quite obviously have a very limited grasp on the histort of both our government and others before us if you dont see the glaring issue with a fucking blank check.

Laughably naive.

Do yourself a favor and read a few books.

No one can predict anything, what's your point.
I find it funny that you think your so wise and I'm such a retard just because you have a different view of things.

 

[SafeSpace]

...so the msm are out of jobs with this now?

 

[Lead]

Did it realy surprise you finding out that the nsa was spying on all of us? You had to assume they were. In this time and age where a dirty bomb could come over and set us in a world war or Ina blame game, you have to know all. I know it sucks but that's the world we live in. The Russians got out nuclear tech because we slept and they got the best of us. And that Olmost set the world in fire(during the Cold War). U have to assume that if it could happen, then it's happening.

I don't believe this really changes the issue I brought up of them lying about this. Whether someone is suspicious or not doesn't excuse the behavior. The rest of the post is whether they should use the program, which would be a perfectly fine debate to have with our media, public and government. The problem is they didn't do that. There was no debate. It was just do it and don't tell the public. That amount of power in the long term is far more dangerous for us domestically then the alternate scenario of finding sound balanced policy to combat the foreign danger

 

[Blackened]

You can assume legislation is put in place with good intentions that ultimately leads to bad ones. You give any group too much power, even for good, and over time, it is likely to be used with a bad result. Even the bad result could be justified with good intentions. The problem is though, the farther you go, the less and less checks we have on the group doing this. We weren't told about the NSA program and we're blatantly lied to about it. Say what you want about them using it to protect us but there is a much graver danger that a part of the government can hide something this large and controversial, lie about it when asked, and have no real consequences for it. I could care less about how good their intentions are at this stage. What I need to know is the checks we have in place are slowly being degraded and people thing they are above our laws/rights.

I agree, but you know what a good check is on this shit?

A wall and a reasonable immigration system so we don't have to worry about people flying planes into buildings.

It feels like the refugees policy and bringing in 1,000,000 Muslims last year was done so that people would be begging for a totalitarian regime. Welp, they got it.

 

[Lead]

I agree, but you know what a good check is on this shit?

A wall and a reasonable immigration system so we don't have to worry about people flying planes into buildings.

It feels like the refugees policy and bringing in 1,000,000 Muslims last year was done so that people would be begging for a totalitarian regime. Welp, they got it.

I don't have issue with reforming immigration going forward. We do have things in place to vet citizens. We can build off this. I'm certain our vetting has increased since 9/11.

I'm not certain on necessarily a wall but tighter border security isn't a bad thing either. The refugee situation is one that is a group by group basis and the details are more important than a blanket yes or no. We do need immigration so it is important to make sure we are picking the right people since we often get priority compared to less desirable countries

 

[Blackened]

I don't have issue with reforming immigration going forward. We do have things in place to vet citizens. We can build off this. I'm certain our vetting has increased since 9/11.

I'm not certain on necessarily a wall but tighter border security isn't a bad thing either. The refugee situation is one that is a group by group basis and the details are more important than a blanket yes or no. We do need immigration so it is important to make sure we are picking the right people since we often get priority compared to less desirable countries

Why do we need immigration? If it's the economy, all you have to do is stop telling women "having children is destroying the planet, we need to bring in immigrants to have children for you". But imo, we need to get to an area where the economy is sustainable with an unchanging population. Get at the root of the problem.

And there were over 1,000,000 Muslims brought in last year, the majority from areas with terrorism problems. I don't think our vetting process has gotten better, I'd argue the opposite. FBI says there are 1,000 investigations ongoing regarding Islamic terrorism. We are turning freedom loving citizens into fascists. We really gotta stop this nonsense.

 

[2DUM2TAP]

If he signed a bill that means it was proposed by and voted in favor of by a Republican Congress and Senate correct?

This isn't Obama putting something dirty in. This is Obama simply not vetoing what seems to be some bipartisan proposal. Don't look and stretch like that to blame him for everything you disagree with.

Appearantly the TS missed this oldie but goldie

 

[Lead]

Why do we need immigration? If it's the economy, all you have to do is stop telling women "having children is destroying the planet, we need to bring in immigrants to have children for you". But imo, we need to get to an area where the economy is sustainable with an unchanging population. Get at the root of the problem.

And there were over 1,000,000 Muslims brought in last year, the majority from areas with terrorism problems. I don't think our vetting process has gotten better, I'd argue the opposite. FBI says there are 1,000 investigations ongoing regarding Islamic terrorism. We are turning freedom loving citizens into fascists. We really gotta stop this nonsense.

The world population has flattened out but there is still a stage where developed countries aren't maintaining their population while other countries are. This eventually will be true for all countries but until then, developed countries are dealing with having to makeup a shortfall and also the worry of continuing to grow their economies. I get in time, GDP growth likely won't be expected other than from productivity but until we switch to a resource minded sustainability phase economy, we kinda have to address these needs. I think we are possibly 100 years out before developed countries begin even thinking about flatline population without immigration being a lever to use. It's a transition that will take time and we are in a good place to still prosper during it.

 

[Blackened]

The world population has flattened out but there is still a stage where developed countries aren't maintaining their population while other countries are. This eventually will be true for all countries but until then, developed countries are dealing with having to makeup a shortfall and also the worry of continuing to grow their economies. I get in time, GDP growth likely won't be expected other than from productivity but until we switch to a resource minded sustainability phase economy, we kinda have to address these needs. I think we are possibly 100 years out before developed countries begin even thinking about flatline population without immigration being a lever to use. It's a transition that will take time and we are in a good place to still prosper during it.

Well, educated women think it's their duty to not have children because global warming... so we have to bring in immigrants to have children for them because the economy.

It's ridiculous. It's a political strategy because white Americans tend to vote conservative. The libertarian party is almost exclusively made up of white men.