Nova Uni

[Frank23]

Brendan Schaub made some controversial statements regarding Brazilian fighters on his podcast. Nova Uni

 

[DaveHilly]

Strong words. Especially that last paragraph. I think that I often forget that Brazil is considered a third world country.. it really is remarkable what they've done in/for the sport.

 

[eneck]

OPEN LETTER: André Pederneiras

I have a deep sense of loss at this moment. Not only because of Jose Aldo’s belt, but mainly because of the lack of respect to our great champion, who maintained the UFC belt for four years and seven months, for seven fights (not counting his almost two years and three fights with the WEC title). I got back (to Brazil) and saw comments from people that certainly don’t know anything about fighting. And if they do, they never got anywhere, because those who achieved something in our sport know how hard is to compete at the highest level, against athletes from all over the world, and defeat them for many years.

When Brazil had no other champion, in a tense moment, Aldo maintained his title. After that, two other Brazilians joined him, maintaining the fame and recognition of the country in MMA. The only thing I ask everyone is respect to our great champion. For those who say it was fixed, I’d rather not comment, because they don’t deserve time and attention.

Last Saturday, Jose Aldo lost his belt in a fight in which he couldn’t show how well trained and prepared psychologically he was. There was no taunting that could enter his head, there was no technical failure, just an unusual blow. A blow like that, connecting in someone’s chin while moving forward, isn’t something that happens all the time. But it has happened with us. If it was the opposite, with McGregor being punched in the chin and Aldo in the eyebrow, we would be calling Aldo a superchampion today, the best of all times, but this is how sports are. Better luck for McGregor, who won and, therefore, is the new champion.

We need to understand that Jose Aldo is a human being subject to defeats, like any other. Those who show up criticizing him should think: this guy came from Manaus to Rio with nothing, to live in a gym, sleep on the mat, and wake up late so he wouldn’t starve since he had no money to have breakfast. He got where he were, always believing he would be a champion, and became one, due to hard work and dedication. The people’s champion.

Would those who are out there criticizing, talking about embarrassment, have the courage to do what he did? I bet not. If they did, they would know how hard is to win in a country where it’s rare to have support to sports. My message to critics is this: get up from the chair, get out from the computer, drop the phone, and do better. We need more people like Aldo and less critics from the couch.

The king has left, but will be back shortly.

Andre Pederneiras, Nova Uniao leader. More than a team, a family!

 

[Bulletproof Acc]

Dana calls Schaub a liar. Dede calls Schaub a liar. Is he a liar or is he talking too much?

 

[mrsenor]

So instead of disputing the charge he says Schaub is jealous and sucks

/thread

 

[FlyThaiMMA]

Hey look, another person taking what Schaub says on the Fighter and the Kid seriously.

It's funny how the MMA world takes what is said in a COMEDY podcast seriously.

 

[Vitor CroCop]

Hey look, another person taking what Schaub says on the Fighter and the Kid seriously.

It's funny how the MMA world takes what is said in a COMEDY podcast seriously.

So he was joking? That's your position?

 

[Yari]

Schaub rekt

 

[dim_]

Dede was doing ok until he described performances as "unbelievable"

If we think about it, it’s really unbelievable what Brazilians can do: we have no training since kids, we don’t have adequate food in the infant stage which, as we all know, it’s the most important, we don’t have adequate supplements because we can’t buy it since it’s too expensive when it gets in Brazil, and much less investors who believe in the sport

so despite the lack of training, the lack of food as infants, the lack of supplements, the lack of investment....

Of course, Brazil isnt alone in this

 

[chinarice]

Cheaters gonna cheat, however, there are cheaters from many countries that fight in the UFC. Not just Brazil.

 

[dim_]

Brazil has the highest ratio of PED users in the UFC, and the highest profile PED users as well, funny how the one thing these cheats have in common is there doctor/ head of the commission.

You need to back this up with some sort of sources.

I ran the number a few months ago and brazil and usa percentage wise (positives v number of ufc fighters) were about even, usa was actually slightly higher

And besides, think you might find Dagestan leads the ped ratio in the UFC

 

[emeraldgsl]

lol That picture should be shooped with Dillashaw and Warren's face instead of Barao and DuDu. Just Saying

 

[dim_]

found my old numbers...

Ok, this is about as scientific as lard, but based on the wikipedia list of fighters to have had doping cases.

Brazil - 15
Canada - 1
Dagestan - 1
Germany - 1
Holland - 1
Japan - 2
Poland - 1
Russia - 2
Sweden - 1
USA - 46

now note, this includes all athletes including those not in the UFC, and im also pretty sure the list isnt totally complete, but its a very rough guide.

This also doesnt take into account the number of athletes from each country involved in MMA, so we can use the current UFC Roster as a vague guide

Brazil - 102
Canada - 29
Dagestan - 0
Germany - 4
Holland - 4
Japan - 15
Poland - 11
Russia - 25
Sweden - 6
USA - 254

Now this is totally unscientific, and really worth nothing as data, but anyway...

Dagestan - 100%
Germany - 25%
Holland - 25%
USA - 18%
Sweden - 17%
Brazil - 15%
Japan - 13%
Poland - 9%
Russia - 8%
Canada - 3%

But like I say, this is about as scientific as toffee

on the basis of an unverified wikipedia list that may or may not be complete or accurate, that involves fighters outside of the ufc, then calculated as a percentage of fighters currently contracted by the UFC (but not involved fighters formerly with the UFC and released as a result of a doping violation), Brazil is marginally cleaner than the US

well the numbers are based on a whole load of unverified information, and a lot of what, ifs and wherefores.

To do it properly, would need

1) Just UFC Positive tests over x amount of years
2) totals of athletes from all nations in the UFC for ALL of those years

I think the only thing that very basic study shows, if you allow for a fair bit of deviation in each direction as far as the percentages goes, in response to the original TS insinuation that Brazil had a bigger doping problem (the topic was merged so his post is mid topic), my conclusion would be that no, Brazil does not show a significant difference in number of doping cases to other countries.

Allowing for a certain amount of innacuracy in the data, I would say that nations were all pretty much of a muchness and the PED issue is pretty static across all nationalities.

The only thing that could be argued is that the doping cases with Brazilian athletes tend to be involving much higher profile athletes than in the US, but again, that can partly be accounted for by the fact there are fewer Brazilian athletes in the UFC so the few that are are more likely to be household names.

Dagestan is the dirtiest, usa is worse than brazil, just.

 

[HelloJapan]

Hey look, another person taking what Schaub says on the Fighter and the Kid seriously.

It's funny how the MMA world takes what is said in a COMEDY podcast seriously.

...you're not that dumb are you? Not everything discussed is "comedy". Clearly in this context Schaub is talking seriously. I think Brendan talks without thinking things through ALOT, milking is UFC career for what it's worth.

But these will live forever...

 

[God_Emperor_Of_Mankind]

Did he just shut down Schaub?
😲

 

[Phronimos]

Some truth to what he said. but not completely. I know for a fact that it is easier and cheaper to get steroids in Brazil than supplements, that is true. They basically invented the sport, true. Lots of sour grapes.

 

[FlyThaiMMA]

So he was joking? That's your position?

Yes!

Do you listen to the podcast or are you apart of the "fake outraged at everything" crowd?

 

[Headkicktoleg]

So instead of disputing the charge he says Schaub is jealous and sucks

 

[Vitor CroCop]

Yes!

Do you listen to the podcast or are you apart of the "fake outraged at everything" crowd?

Hell no. I laugh at the most obscene offensive shit all the time. But it did not sound like joke at all. And if it was a joke I don't get the humor. And I could give two fucks if Aldo is juicing or not.

 

[Cptn1NSAN0]

"We have no fault for your failure as a fighter and athlete."

Ouch

 

[ColdSierra]

found my old numbers...





Dagestan is the dirtiest, usa is worse than brazil, just.

Nice numbers, I find interesting that after some data comes along (even not scientifically accurate) the thread becomes empty...

 

[MCS]

Thiago Silva
Anderson Silva
Wanderlei Silva
Bigfoot Silva
Vitor Belfort
Royce Gracie
Chris Cyborg
Feijao
Thiago Tavares
Hermes Franca
Alex Nog

55 busts since 2002 according to (http://www.cagepotato.com/mma-steroid-busts-definitive-timeline/). I counted 11 Brazilians, some of them busted twice, but they don't have the full list.

 

[Rum]

Found my old numbers...

Dagestan is the dirtiest, USA is worse than Brazil, just.

Yeah, outside The States we always said USA rhymes with PED.

Not just from the massive amount of Americans busted in MMA, but in so many other sports, it seems like PEDs are as American as apple pie.

And that's even though they have the best pharmacists and so Americans have the most advanced, difficult-to-detect stuff, so you'd expect them to pop less often than Dagestanis and Brazilians and Mexicans etc. And yet somehow they STILL pop far more often than most.

 

[Chaseg1520]

I actually think Schaub is pretty entertaining and accurate in his podcast appearances. Not a huge fan of him as a fighter though.

 

[dim_]

Yeah, outside The States we always said USA rhymes with PED.

Not just from the massive amount of Americans busted in MMA, but in so many other sports, it seems like PEDs are as American as apple pie.

And that's even though they have the best pharmacists and so Americans have the most advanced, difficult-to-detect stuff, so you'd expect them to pop less often than Dagestanis and Brazilians and Mexicans etc. And yet somehow they STILL pop far more often than most.

Not to do with the doctors or the amount, more to do with the testing. More athletes pop in certain countries because certain countries have better testing.

Spain for instance, has some of the best doping doctors historically in the world. Efe Fuentes, worked with numerous athletes at the olympics, helped Spain win a world cup, helped Barcelona win countless titles, Del Moral (Armstrong and multiple tennis players), etc, but the Spanish economy is so screwed that the anti doping agency in spain has no money for testing so its basically a free for all (Check the wada reports for how many tests conducted in spain, its laughable) so less spanish athletes test positive than americans. Holland, Belgium, great doctors, China, parts of Asia.

Contrast that with somewhere like Italy, Athletes busted left right and centre, not because more are doping, but because CONI (Italian Olympic Committee) and the Italian Police are hot on it.

A lot of Americans get busted, mainly because there is decent testing in many sports in America (outside of pro sports of course)

 

[moreorless87]

Americans calling out any other nation for having a "steroid culture" always seems like the pot calling the kettle black to me. Ok maybe the UFC didn't have the state sanctioned doping of Commie nations but for personal doping its always been one of the worst offenders.

 

[Nihilism]

So instead of disputing the charge he says Schaub is jealous and sucks

My thoughts as well.

Immediately going for the envy and inadequacy cards is typical ad hominem for a guilty party in denial.

 

[moreorless87]

Thiago Silva
Anderson Silva
Wanderlei Silva
Bigfoot Silva
Vitor Belfort
Royce Gracie
Chris Cyborg
Feijao
Thiago Tavares
Hermes Franca
Alex Nog

55 busts since 2002 according to (http://www.cagepotato.com/mma-steroid-busts-definitive-timeline/). I counted 11 Brazilians, some of them busted twice, but they don't have the full list.

One thing worth noting I would say is a lot of those Brazilians were training in the US when they got caught using steroids.

 

[Parrulo]

Not to do with the doctors or the amount, more to do with the testing. More athletes pop in certain countries because certain countries have better testing.

Spain for instance, has some of the best doping doctors historically in the world. Efe Fuentes, worked with numerous athletes at the olympics, helped Spain win a world cup, helped Barcelona win countless titles, Del Moral (Armstrong and multiple tennis players), etc, but the Spanish economy is so screwed that the anti doping agency in spain has no money for testing so its basically a free for all (Check the wada reports for how many tests conducted in spain, its laughable) so less spanish athletes test positive than americans. Holland, Belgium, great doctors, China, parts of Asia.

Contrast that with somewhere like Italy, Athletes busted left right and centre, not because more are doping, but because CONI (Italian Olympic Committee) and the Italian Police are hot on it.

A lot of Americans get busted, mainly because there is decent testing in many sports in America (outside of pro sports of course)

England also has some pretty good doctors. . . . if you know what i mean

 

[MCS]

One thing worth noting I would say is a lot of those Brazilians were training in the US when they got caught using steroids.

IIRC, Thiago, Wanderlei and Franca were at American teams during those busts. Vitor & Anderson travel. Americans & Brazilians top the bust charts. One thing why Brazilians get so many accusations is them being in the minority in leading orgs and therefore they have to be good, which makes them popular.

 

[dim_]

England also has some pretty good doctors. . . . if you know what i mean

:icon_lol: :icon_lol:

Europe is pretty blessed with top doctors everywhere, French doctors suck though.

 

[phatron]

Wait, isn't PEDerneiras the one that came out and said fights would suck without PED's?

 

[Toco]

You need to back this up with some sort of sources.

I ran the number a few months ago and brazil and usa percentage wise (positives v number of ufc fighters) were about even, usa was actually slightly higher

And besides, think you might find Dagestan leads the ped ratio in the UFC

found my old numbers...





Dagestan is the dirtiest, usa is worse than brazil, just.

haha, nice owned

 

[Shaddows]

He's on point IMO
Schaub should have kept his mouth shut.

Yes, anyone can say whatever, and in this day and age, any retard can get their voice heard by saying something controversial like that, even if completely biased or wrong.

Andre responded as he should have, aggressively defending his fighters.

I hope it ends here.

I liked Schaub as a fighter, and if he had some chin, he could have been a monster. But beyond that, he is irrelevant, a side-note in the MMA history.

 

[Jackonfire]

My thoughts as well.

Immediately going for the envy and inadequacy cards is typical ad hominem for a guilty party in denial.

Thats a weird way to look at it. When someone accuses you of doing something you haven't done you shouldn't even qualify it with a response. Its like me asking you when did you decide to stop beating your wife?

 

[manopl]

"We have no fault for your failure as a fighter and athlete."

Beautifull.
/thread

 

[Random Passerby]

found my old numbers...





Dagestan is the dirtiest, usa is worse than brazil, just.

I know you stated yourself that this is very unscientific, but still...

how did you mathematically justify your Dagestan 100% value by working with 0 Dagestani fighters and 1 historical doping offence???

You are wrong about Dagestan even by using your own very iffy statistical method anyway since at the time Ali Baugotinov got popped for Epo there were at least 5 Dagestan fighters out of the top of my head (Rashid Magomedov, Khabib, Ali Baugotinov, Rustam Khabilov, Ruslan Magomedov) and that would reduce the value to at least 20%, most likely even lower.

 

[nephel]

Wait, isn't PEDerneiras the one that came out and said fights would suck without PED's?

no. what he said was if your goal is to have the most exciting fights possible, make it legal. Two juiced up guys going all out will generally be a bigger spectacle.

 

[dim_]

I know you stated yourself that this is very unscientific, but still...

how did you mathematically justify your Dagestan 100% value by working with 0 Dagestani fighters and 1 historical doping offence???

You are wrong anyway since at the time Ali Baugotinov got popped for Epo there were at least 5 Dagestan fighters out of the top of my head (Rashid Magomedov, Khabib, Ali Baugotinov, Rustam Khabilov, Ruslan Magomedov) and that would reduce the value to at least 20%, most likely even lower.

Because one list had it as dagestan, one as russia and I dont know the difference. To be honest, I actually thought Dagestan was seperate from Russia now. And i didnt actually read the names on the UFC fighter roster, I just copy pasted the nations and totalled them.

So yes, the positive should have been credited to Russia, and would be 20% or so of Russian fighters. But the thread it was in and the point that was being made at the time it was never intended to be a scientific study, for the very reason you point out.

 

[ZuffaExecutive]

Dana calls Schaub a liar. Dede calls Schaub a liar. Is he a liar or is he talking too much?

Dana called him a liar for the amount of sponsorship he gets.Which considering rogan said its not a lie and he would phone dana for him says dana is lieing on that one.

Dede well,takes offense to a comment from schaub but gets a tester deported.So do with that as you will

 

[IBeLurkin]

Lmao look who started the TRT loophole. Posterboy Randy Couture and Matt Hughes.

Hughes? Hughes has always been very against PEDs in any way. Do you have any evidence to connect Hughes to TRT or are you just making shit up?