North Korea Continues Full Speed with Nuclear and Missile Programs
- Thread starter Orgasmo
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Trump has stated since even before the meeting that de-nuking NK won't happen overnight.
June 2, 2018, 9:08 AM
Trump hints at longer path for North Korea to denuke
“It will be a beginning. I don’t say and I’ve never said it happens in one meeting. You’re talking about years of hostility; years of problems; years of, really, hatred between so many different nations. But I think you’re going to have a very positive result in the end.”
https://www.apnews.com/b8b433dbb06b...ump-hints-at-longer-path-for-NKorea-to-denuke
June 2, 2018, 9:08 AM
Trump hints at longer path for North Korea to denuke
“It will be a beginning. I don’t say and I’ve never said it happens in one meeting. You’re talking about years of hostility; years of problems; years of, really, hatred between so many different nations. But I think you’re going to have a very positive result in the end.”
https://www.apnews.com/b8b433dbb06b...ump-hints-at-longer-path-for-NKorea-to-denuke
The only problem with this is Trump has said the opposite on several occasions.
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You are spouting nonsense. The actions of previous Administrations did nothing to stop North Korea from pursuing nukes. Now Trump is attempting a different approach and you throwing a temper tantrum. You can't point to a single thing of substance that has been lost here. Just vague nonsense about China lapping up American diplomatic influence, whatever that means.
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Well maybe you could tell me what specific actions would have improved the situation and why previous administrations failed to take them?
Liberals are acting like there was a good plan in place that was working/would have worked, but Trump fucked it up.
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trumpians are getting shit for this:
not because we like north korea
not because we thought trump should single-handedly fix the NK problem
but
because he, and so many of you, were putting up the "mission accomplished" banner and talking nobel peace prize when trump had his picture taken with kim. they signed some papers for the cameras. everyone else knew that none of this meant shit, and could actually be dangerous.
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I'm sorry, but what was "dangerous" about it?
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we pissed away one of our few diplomatic bargaining chips for nothing. theres a reason why no other president would meet with the kims. if they gave up a nut first, maybe bush or clinton would have.
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How so?
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I'm not a trumpian, and I am very far from thinking NK is "mission accomplished" or anything close to it. In fact I'm very nervous about how he is handling things and I don't want us to get suckered.
But as much as I dislike and am ambivalent about Trump and how he goes about things I have an even bigger problem with his critics. For the most part their freakouts have little to do with substance and everything to do with politics. And unfortunately with the levels of autistic screeching and flailing that they are doing its virtually impossible to sort out real issues from political hysterics.
And the fact is that they cannot show us how the actions of previous Administrations made things better or moved them in the right direction. Not even their Kenyan messiah and his sonorous tones was able to serenade the Kim regime out of its nukes.
I'm convinced that all of these temper tantrums are an attempt to gaslight and demoralize the public so that leftists can return to political power.
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Let's for argument sake say that this is true...and that NK is still pushing forward with nukes. It's fucking frustrating and depressing. But...t
Then we are right back to square one where Obama left us...as he left it with his 8 year term.
But Demos are pissed because we are now back to the same spot Obama was in? Minus the peace created between North and South Korea...
K.
Obama did it right though, ya? Them sanctions really worked wonders, ya? You all didn't bitch then though, ya?
Got it.
Then we are right back to square one where Obama left us...as he left it with his 8 year term.
But Demos are pissed because we are now back to the same spot Obama was in? Minus the peace created between North and South Korea...
K.
Obama did it right though, ya? Them sanctions really worked wonders, ya? You all didn't bitch then though, ya?
Got it.
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i explained with the rest of the quote that you chopped off.
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there is a lot of crying wolf with trump, so i understand that. hes a POS, but he probably doesnt deserve ALL of the criticism leveled against him. though, what president has since social media really got going?
imo, past american presidents have been satisfied with the status quo with north korea. everyone feels bad for the people there, but what are our options really? if we attack NK, basically everyone agrees that seoul will be dust before we can neutralize NK, and thats best case scenario. even IF we end the kim regime, we'll see a refugee crisis that makes syria look like a vacation. does SK REALLY want that? we know china doesnt. so after that, the only REAL option with NK is to squeeze them with sanctions occasionally, and hope something breaks. thats a very reasonable assumption too btw. the recent kims do not have the cult of personality that kim il sung did. every generation further away from him likely has a weaker hold on the population.
also, the kims are not idiots. evil, but not idiots. they understand the above situation too. therefore, everyone knows that they arent going to attack anyone. they get some things once and a while out of bitching and making threats, but they know if they actually attack someone, theyre going to get F'ed up. so thats another reason why the status quo is a decent option for the rest of the world.
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No you didn't. You just said some vague talking point about other leaders having a reason to not meet with them. That's all your argument is predicated on, it seems. Just some vague talking points, that don't explain anything.
So I ask again, how did the US give up anything by meeting with Kim, and working out a conditional agreement? Do you think the deal is set in stone or something? Like the US can't possibly go back to leaning on them, if NK doesn't comply, and reverts back to what they were doing? What exactly did the US lose in all this that they can't possibly get back?
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the kims have always wanted to meet with the Pres. the other presidents held this over their head like the carrot that it is. trump freely gave it up for basically nothing. why would kim give up his only bargaining chip?
maybe.
how were we leaning on them? sanctions? if so, whats changed from what other presidents have done, other than us giving kim a bunch of photo ops?
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well at least them building more nuke paraphernalia is a step in the right direction. wait....
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No, no I cannot tell you how to improve the situation because it's a very, very complex situation. But I can tell you what actions would make the situation worse. Everyone can tell you that because they're the actions that administrations have taken pained efforts to avoid because this is a situation that is so difficult to improve and so easy to worsen.
Trump went ahead and did every one of those things that experts said would potentially make the situation worse and proved every one of his critics correct.
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No one with an ounce of sense is surprised. Just like no one should be surprised that the defense is going to be "We need to give them more time..." Which I would agree with if people hadn't treated those worthless initial conversations as evidence of results already banked.
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You still haven't explained how the US somehow lost any sort of position because of this meeting. You're seriously arguing that they held a meeting over his head? For what? What is the harm in giving it to him? It's a meeting. You seriously think Kim was ever going to tone his shit down over not giving a meeting to him? That's ridiculous. What is so wrong or "dangerous" about talking to him, and actually getting him on the record, and holding him up to an agreement?
LOL, "maybe"? Of course the US can go back to fucking them up. What's stopping them?
Also, despite the nuclear thing not being immediately solved('cause that's totally reasonable), NK has shown signs of diplomacy. They aren't launching missiles, they have dismantled some facilities, and they returned remains from the Korean war. They are making an effort. You're acting like absolutely nothing has happened, and they're right back to launching missiles over Japan.
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the kims wanted it for decades. presumably to use the photos etc for their domestic audience and legitimacy. important things for those attempting to establish/maintain cults of personality.
can you not get people on record with a phone call or video conference?
imo, kim, moon, and trump likely knew this was all bs. but they also knew it was a win win win. each uses this for their domestic audience, and when it inevitably goes to shit, you still get to look reasonable and blame it on the other guy.
we arent going to fight them. everyone knows that.
this is possible. maybe kim really is changing. maybe he really is liberalizing and giving up his nukes for no apparent reason. something that will almost certainly lead to his death by the hands of his own people, as weve seen in basically every other dictatorship thats loosened its grip.
or
maybe its just the same cycle we've watched for decades. they show their ass for a little bit, then we give them something and they calm down for a while. then they fire off some missiles. we give them something, then they calm down for a while. have you not witnessed this, as well?
