No Way Jones can be Considered GOAT

[BFoe]

How about using BJJ against Vitor

Eh
I’d say that to beat Vitor at his strengths, that would require outstriking him. Vitor locking up that armbar on Jones was a rarity. He did submit Rumble in the fight just prior though, so there’s that I guess. Before that, it had been over a decade since Vitor subbed anyone.

I think it’s fair to say that Jones beat Shogun and Cormier at their own strengths though.

 

[TempleoftheDog]

No, but he went 0-1 in a one sided beat down at the hands of Matt Hammill

Yeah, like pretty much all Jones, Silva, and Conor fans. They put their foot in their mouth all the time with shit like this.

 

[Fight Professor]

Aside from all the cheating, unlike most of the other fighters in the GOAT discussion, Jones has ducked the real champion of his division. He came back at HW as soon as the champ vacated to fight a one-dimensional contender.

Which GOAT candidate had fought the "real" champion in the weight class above? GSP had fought Bisping. Anderson has never fought Jones. Conor is the closest I guess. Volk was close to beating Islam.

 

[JKS]

Aside from all the cheating, unlike most of the other fighters in the GOAT discussion, Jones has ducked the real champion of his division. He came back at HW as soon as the champ vacated to fight a one-dimensional contender.

GSP, Anderson, Fedcr, etc never did that. GSP came out of retirement to fight and beat the reigning champ. Anderson moved up in weight to fight a number of good LHWs in their prime. Khabib, IMO, isn't in the same category because he left early (albeit after steamrolling everyone in his division).

Finally, every other GOAT fighter took on every type of opponent. Jones has never fought a power puncher (the closest he came would be Hendo). In fact, he's hidden from them.

Unless Jon can fight clean against the true champion, he is a paper champ and shouldn't be in the GOAT top-3

Ducked?? You mean the Francis who sat out all of last year fixing his boo boo?? The same Francis who was playing hard ball in negotiations while Jon was ready??

Jones called for this fight multiple times last year and said he was ready. You do realize it was suppose to be Francis vs Jon in March, right?? Jon showed up, Francis didnt cause he fled the organization.

 

[Ozze]

Jones could submit Godzilla and TS would find a way to discredit the win

"Godzilla has no ground game and very little reach, it was a tailored match for Jones to win! He will never fight King Kong, he's a duck!"
- TS

 

[Luthien]

"Godzilla has no ground game and very little reach, it was a tailored match for Jones to win! He will never fight King Kong, he's a duck!"
- TS

 

[Ozze]

TS says Jones ducked the HW champion and his best examples are Anderson, who never fought Jones, the dominant champion from the upper division and GSP, who also didn't fight the dominant champion of his time (Anderson), sit out for years while Weidman and Rockhold were champions and came back for a one off against fucking Bisping. C'mon now....

 

[IsNormal]

Jones has ducked the real champion of his division. He came back at HW as soon as the champ vacated to fight a one-dimensional contender.

GSP, Anderson, Fedcr, etc never did that. GSP came out of retirement to fight and beat the reigning champ.

Interesting comparison with GSP vs Bisping as many accuse GSP of stalling his return and cherry-picking Bisping.

In 2017 I read many MMA-fans saying Bisping was a super weak champ with a "fluke KO over Rockhold, and paper defense over cherry-picked old Hendo"
The best MW:s were guys like Whittaker, Yoel, Jacare, Mousasi, Rockhold, Weidman.
Supposedly GSP avoided them, and Woodley at WW.
The sentiment was GSP figured Bisping was the easiest possible champ he could ever face.
People were also butthurt about GSP not moving up to face Silva during the heydays.

Feels like the respect for Bisping has risen a bit since, and I now hear many say "he wasn't that bad" - at least I don't hear many saying the Rockhold KO was a fluke anymore

 

[Black Blood]

Hmm... nah, he is probably the GOAT. Without a doubt the greatest LHW ever. He could become at least the most accomplished UFC HW, but I don't know if he'll stick around long enough to do that.

 

[93confirmed]

-In 2011, Jones beat 4 champions in one of the best runs in MMA history (Machida, Jackson, Shogun, Ryan Bader and Rashad Evans shortly after)
- youngest UFC champion in history at 23
-Most title wins in history
-11 successful title defenses at LHW
-Defeated 3 generations of fighters, with many of them being legends, hall of famers
-Beat great fighters using their strengths against them e.g. submitting BJJ black belts, striking with shogun, wrestling and taking down DC
-Outwrestled Olympic wrestler DC
-Never really had a legit loss (1 DQ, 2 fights were arguable though)
-Champ in 2 divisions
-Came back from a 3 year lay off and destroyed the top contender in minutes
-Longest unbeaten streak in UFC history (19)
-Fourth most consecutive title defenses in UFC history (He would have been 1st by a super large margin, over 3000 days if he didn't get stripped)
-Most wins in UFC light heavyweight division
-Perfect at his craft, no really known weaknesses, exceptional wrestling, striking, clinch game, fight iq etc
-Can bench press 315 lbs (3 plates) for 5 reps with his long arms

Also, i don't like to crap on the other GOATs or discredit them, but Jones never tapped to strikes, or went on losing streaks

OP is correct about him ducking Francis (and Pav) and its because he admittedly is terrified of getting KO'd. With that said, he's still the GOAT for the reasons you mentioned.

 

[IsNormal]

Why does moving up in weight for a single fight matter SO much that it defines your GOAT ranking?

I mean, since GSP is included.
The difference between GSP vs Bisping and Jon vs Gane is not huge - yet it seems to be the basis of your argument. As if it wouldn't matter how many more title wins Jon got at LHW, the only thing that seals the deal is moving up once and defeating the lineal champ.

I even find it weird when people recap GSP's career in a way that his move to MW as the biggest thing he did when it was just one fight. As if it didn't matter how many WW-wins he had unless he had moved up once.

 

[the ambush]

The only fighter in his universe in terms of dominance was Anderson Silva. Others were on the outside looking in

 

[ippikiookami]

Yes, GSP cherry picked Bisping, but the fact is that Bisping was the champ at the time. Yes, he got KO-ed by Serra, but I think that Anderson getting beat for 14:30 min of a 15 min fight against Sonnen was a much worse loss (you could argue that GSP just got caught once, while Anderson got dominated for nearly the entire fight).

Anderson didn't fight the LHW champ, but he did jump two weight classes, when he was already out of his prime, to fight Cormier. He also had a number of notable wins at LHW. He also put in very good showings, again out of his prime, against Izzy and even in the boxing ring.

Jones is undoubtedly the LHW GOAT, but his PED use tarnishes his legacy, as it does Silva's. This is a big reason that I would question putting either of those fighters as the all-time GOAT. The thing that puts Silva above Jones, IMO, is that Jones ducked big strikers (never fought Rumble in LHW, waited until Francis was gone before coming back to avoid striking with Gane, and won't fight Pavlovich). The other GOAT fighters never ducked anyone, as far as I know.

For Jon to be considered the all-time GOAT, he needs to fight Francis, rather than calling out an old, tired and unmotivated Stipe. Until he does that, I think GSP and Silva rank above him.

 

[Bones The Goat]

Jones never fought Hendo. He fought Vitor, Rampage, Rashad, Machida, Shogun, Glover, Santos, and Gus. Those guys are pretty good at knocking people out and/or winning by ko/tko.

The only person in MMA history that is more accomplished than Jon Jones is Anderson Silva, and they're pretty neck and neck at this point.

Jones choked out Hendo

 

[Bones The Goat]

GSP never fought a prime black fighter he duck Woodley and Usman fights, got lucky that Daley didn't stick around

 

[Fioretti]

Jones choked out Hendo

Not in MMA, homie.

 

[humdizzle]

might want to see a doctor bro

your sodium levels are through the roof

 

[Jack Bauer]

How come he didn’t strike vs Gane?

Why strike when you can take no damage and end it quickly? I'm no fan of Jones' drug cheating and blatant eye pokes, but he's always had a great fight IQ.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Top Tier

Jones , GSP , Fedor , Anderson , Aldo

Really hard to disagree with this. I could possibly see Aldo getting the bump by DJ or Khabib but i'm just being nannycock.

 

[Yep]

Why strike when you can take no damage and end it quickly? I'm no fan of Jones' drug cheating and blatant eye pokes, but he's always had a great fight IQ.

Comment was directed towards the comment that he beat people at their own game. He would’ve been stupid to just stand and bang.