No More Steroids Questions

Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by Madmick, Jul 9, 2005.

  1. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I have no authority, so you can choose to ignore this.

    I've noticed a lot of guys either cautiously or candidly ask questions about steroid use in this forum, and I've read all the replies and recommendations to these questions. It's clear to me that no one in this forum knows enough about steroid cycling to be giving advice (or if they do, they are abstaining from speaking, like myself, or possibly screwing with the noobs, which would be REALLY fucked up with something as potentially dangerous as steroids).

    There are many bodybuilding forums out there with subforums devoted entirely to anabolic discussion (and we're not talking about prohormones). I don't recommend listening to them, because many are total juice-monkeys and commonly say things like "I don't care what anyone says, at 2g (of testosterone) a week, MAGIC HAPPENS!" or "TRRRRRRRRRRRRRENNNNNN!!!!" But at least many of them do work hard to study and understand steroids- even if they've never learned a method for discerning information from misinformation- and none of them will tell you to take anything that they haven't done.

    I own and have studied (not just read) six books on steroids, ranging from the scientific ("Steroid Biochemistry") to the practical ("Anabolics 2004"). These are just the books I own. I'm not claiming to understand the subject or these books perfectly, because chemistry/medicine/nutrition are not my profession, but I did, at least, receive a 99/100 in my organic chemistry class on my final 10-12 page paper which was steroid-related.

    I know I come off as haughty, but please don't disregard me. I'm just concerned. I know a lot of you guys are considering steroids, and I really see no moral wrong in it as long as you aren't cheating a competitor. But please understand that although the medical community and the mainstream population have in many ways unjustly maligned steroids, this is not creatine, or chromium picolinate, or some other crazy bottle you found on the back of the shelf at the GNC: you need to KNOW what you're doing here before you do it.

    Best case scenario: if you can learn from someone who knows a local doctor who advises patients taking steroids. There are doctors out there who- like me- see no moral wrong in it for the general population, or who personally oppose it for health reasons but realize some guys are just going to do it no matter what (like women getting abortions in countries where it's illegal) and believe the best way for them to care for these guys' health is to advise them and monitor them. Hell, I've even heard on some forums of doctors who use themselves.

    Just, please, let's agree a mixed martial arts diet subforum isn't the right place for anabolic discussion.
     
  2. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    You know, to sort-of support your post I will say that one of the things that ticked me off the most about the Congressional hearings was the Alarmist nature of them, and the one thing that seemed to be lost in the whole debacle is the actual PURPOSE and testimony of Anabolics Experts, and there are many of them out there. There are Doctors who specifically specialise in the use of Anabolics, there are Sports Medicine Doctors, and all sorts of other people whose entire purpose is the study and/or use of anabolics, and none of them were called upon to give a perspective.

    However, that being said, I think a lot of this seeming Anabolic craze has more to do with defiance than anything. So if you're a young guy browsing these forums let me tell you, if you honestly think you can just go shoot up and nothing bad will EVER happend to you. Think again. There are very few guys who have begun juicing as early as 18 or 19 (or even younger) and who still do so without any repercussions of any kind. And I find it humerous that some of the biggest supporters (at least in these forums) of AAS will often say "Oh I don't juice anymore." Why? If it's so great, why is it not part of a daily regimen just to maintain miraculous health?

    I'll offer a slightly educated opinion as to why. Because AAS have a place in both competition AND medicine, and vanity (meaning so you can bang a hot chick or masturbate to your reflection in a mirror) is NOT one of them. Even most IFBB Bodybuilders who juice do it for a specific reason, not just for the gains and hardness, but mainly if you read their own words, to prevent injury. Sports and Bodybuilding, as well as fighting, takes a toll on the body over time. So a lot of these guys juice to stay healthy through what they're putting their bodies through. What was mainly forgotten in the Congressional hearings about AAS is the legitimate medicinal purposes of AAS. Not like the debatable medicinal purposes of other drugs, steroids have been used for years to treat illnesses, from diseases to mono, and have a definitive place in the medical community.

    Plus, in aging men Anabolics can mean the difference between aging well and aging like spoiled milk. Due to advanced aromatisation (sp) if I remember correctly, a lot of guys lose testosterone levels and have increased estrogen levels as they get older. Some guys come into my store with a written note from a Doctor for HGH, and have told me about their use of Anabolics and how it basically has them as healthy as they were when they were younger. However, mind you these guys do not have the accelerated testosterone levels a 19 year-old would have with AAS use, rather they have used Anabolics to return their testosterone levels to where they should be. In other words, it's to fight depletion, not build on an already healthy level of Testosterone.

    There are a multitude of complications that can be drawn though from improper AAS use and the upped level of training intensity that comes with the use of AAS. If you want to know what I mean check out this month's issue of Muscular Development magazine and read the spread about Flex Wheeler, or look up his history and read about the kidney problem he had. Mind you, his kidney disease had NOTHING to do with the AAS. But his training and use of AAS in the end only complicated things to the point where his Doctor had told him "You could drop dead at any second." And he ended up having to have a kidney transplant. Now he can't lift weights at all anymore, but still went on to win a Martial Arts Championship this year at the Arnold Classic. But there's also this, he competed in the 2003 Olympia almost completely free of Steroids (save for a little bit of perscribed Deca to keep his testosterone level normal, if memory serves me), and placed 7th overall against guys who are known juice monsters. So what does that tell you about the magic that is AAS? A guy taking almost nothing, and barely alive, placed 7th in the premiere bodybuilding competition.

    It's something that for the right men, under the right circumstances, with medical professionals monitoring your health, can be very very beneficial. I equate it to the same hormone-replacement therapy that menopausal women seek. There's really no difference. Anabolics are used best in older men or athletes who are basically running their bodies like a race car, just to keep their hormones from going out of whack because of it all. Even in my chosen Sport of Profession, Boxing, there have been known steroid users, the most recent who tested positive being James "Lights Out" Toney who tested positive for Nandrolone (or Decadurabolin), though it's been debated because there have been reported numerous false-positives of Nandrolone, and reportedly he was using Pregnenelone for recovery from two serious injuries, and in my checking I have found some things linking pregnenolone to nandrolone production. But the end result was the stripping of a World Heavyweight Title, and the inability to fight for that title for 2 years, as well as a heavy fine. Boxers also say we don;t much care who juices, go ahead, cheat, I'll just kick your ass anyway (Fernando Vargas was a victim of that mentality of an opponent) lol.

    So that's my two-cents. Flame away.
     
  3. sir037

    sir037 Forever Noob

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    Great points. There are more than enough bodybuilding forums where people can get advise about steroids.

    Besides, I'd rather have Randy Couture's build instead of Ronnie Coleman's.
     
  4. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Ronnie is a Cyborg. I don't believe he's actually human. lol
     
  5. Gsoares**

    Gsoares** Banned Banned

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    you couldnt get ronnies build even if you wanted.... He is a true beast 1 of a kind. it will be awhile before someone rivals him.

    I dont know about the steroid thing though, i dont actualy support steroid usage except for maybe doctor prescribed. But people who are going to take it anyways should be able to get some what informed before they go just injecting their body full of crap.

    Atleast let them ask and take what they can get where they can get it. Who knows maybe it will change their mind completely. Cant just shut them out and tell them DONT ASK!. Then they will do it anyways and come out with a heart attack......

    This is a blanket statement some what, but you get the idea.
     
  6. gooth4

    gooth4 Purple Belt

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    If your takin steroids your an idiot, if your getting info on how to take steriods, online, your a moron.
     
  7. POINT312

    POINT312 Blue Belt

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    i agree i dont think you should be geting answers from who knows who on the net but if you do double check and triple check before you take anyones advice and if you do please get the anti estrogens as well as the anabolics for your stack so you dont end up like a friend i know....
     
  8. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I'm bumping this for the genius asking which steroids to buy in Mexico.
     
  9. Grant D

    Grant D White Belt

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    And why would doing research ONLINE be a problem at all.... havent you ever heard of pubmed? Researching things online isnt a problem at all, as long as you go to the right places.
     
  10. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Yeah, but it tends to be dangerous because many don't know where to go nor how to sort information from misinformation. Blue-collars love to bash "them college-learned" boys, but that's what college teaches you, whether in the liberal arts or science: how to think critically. What people who haven't attended college don't understand is that it is less about learning new information and more about learning how to gather and process new information.

    If you're taking steroids with only the internet as your reference, you're probably endangering yourself, and recklessly. What kept you from buying and reading "World Anabolic Review?" This isn't a stuffy, ultra-conservative dinosaur text. This is good science and experienced medicine applied to steroid use.

    Sorry, but I have to agree with him. If you're taking a supplement as volatile as steroids from behind a computer screen, you're an idiot.
     
  11. Grant D

    Grant D White Belt

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    You know the writer of that book often posts online in forums... I would agree and say for most people that researching online is not a good idea, but it has worked very well for alot of people that I know. Hell, you can even download that book online... Dont think that the only info you can get online is from forums.
     

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