Opinion No, comic books didn't 'become' left wing, they always have been.

[ICHEERTHEBULL]

V for vendetta would be a good example from the conservative movie thread. A movie/comic where the protagonist is fighting a right wing totalitarian state written by a anarchist who was inspired by the right wing conservative government of the time.

 

[Squarechoke]

It's not intelligent to state that comic books are "left wing" and always have been. Nor would it be intelligent to state that they are "right wing". Comics are an art form. Art is subjective. What a leftist ANTIFA member and conservative Trump supporter get from reading a comic might be different and it's possible that neither one gets the point of the writer. I don't have to cherry pick to support my opinion. I've read comics since age 4 and have literally thousands stored away.

People like to take something of value and attribute their ideals to it. Hence, why shitty writers take existing characters and make them gay, an impotent failure, or race swap and give the mantle to a minority instead of putting in work and creating a well-written gay or minority character if that's what you hope to represent or have as a hero against "the other side". This thread starts with the premise "These characters are from my side!" which is more of someone taking a work and claiming it as theirs for some silly reason.

To think that Captain America, a character who loves his country, served in its army, and admittedly prays and respects God is "left wing" for some reason is hilarious. He was created by deeply religious Jewish men. If you want to say he's a classic Liberal, respecting the rights of all humans then I can agree with that. Todays leftists aren't liberal, they don't respect the rights and speech of others. Captain America, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Luke Cage, etc wouldn't hit someone for wearing a MAGA hat. They wouldn't try to shut down opposing views on College Campuses.

That's not a response to what I said. It's a tirade against the OP so there was no reason to quote me whatsoever if that was what you wanted to write.

 

[uppercutbus]

It's not intelligent to state that comic books are "left wing" and always have been. Nor would it be intelligent to state that they are "right wing". Comics are an art form. Art is subjective. What a leftist ANTIFA member and conservative Trump supporter get from reading a comic might be different and it's possible that neither one gets the point of the writer. I don't have to cherry pick to support my opinion. I've read comics since age 4 and have literally thousands stored away.

People like to take something of value and attribute their ideals to it. Hence, why shitty writers take existing characters and make them gay, an impotent failure, or race swap and give the mantle to a minority instead of putting in work and creating a well-written gay or minority character if that's what you hope to represent or have as a hero against "the other side". This thread starts with the premise "These characters are from my side!" which is more of someone taking a work and claiming it as theirs for some silly reason.

To think that Captain America, a character who loves his country, served in its army, and admittedly prays and respects God is "left wing" for some reason is hilarious. He was created by deeply religious Jewish men. If you want to say he's a classic Liberal, respecting the rights of all humans then I can agree with that. Todays leftists aren't liberal, they don't respect the rights and speech of others. Captain America, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Luke Cage, etc wouldn't hit someone for wearing a MAGA hat. They wouldn't try to shut down opposing views on College Campuses.

out of likes but *like.

 

[jeremyemilio]

Spidey fights alongside women and minorities all the time.

Spidey's enemies primarily include

1. Skinhead Capitalist (Kingpin) - White
2. Man obsessed with octopi (Doc Oc)- White
3. Magician (Mysterio) - White
4. Electricity Fetishist (Shocker) - White
5. Guy whose costume is literal blackface (Venom) - White
6. Man in Brock Lesnar Costume (Rhino) - White
7. Deranged Bird Watcher (Vulture) - White
8. Lizard Scientist Man (Lizard) - White
9. Deranged Rich Guy (Green Goblin) - White
10. Deranged Trust Fund Baby (Hobgoblin) - White
11. Second Electricity Fetishist (Shocker) - White
12. Donald Trump Jr mixed with Bilzerian (Kraven The Hunter) - White

j/k. This thread is hilarious.

Ha!

Yeah. In all seriousness, though, Spidey is no righty. He's a bit to complex to think of as a leftie, though.

 

[jeremyemilio]

except captain America specifically goes against the government any chance he gets.

That's a relatively recent development, though. He's been around (sort of) since 1941.

 

[Mila is My World]

Ha!

Yeah. In all seriousness, though, Spidey is no righty. He's a bit to complex to think of as a leftie, though.

Spiderman is a young working class kid from queens, there is very little chance he's a republican.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Go ahead, demonstrate the power of your high IQs and explain how someone of right-wing American philosophy (as I detailed in my previous post) can be a 'fascist dicator' according to this definition.

"Fascism is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. The first fascist movements emerged in Italy during World War I, before spreading to other European countries."

Take your time.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Nah i don't think you can interpret it that way.

He is pretty much a "take matter in your hands, pick yourself by the bootstraps", kinda guy so he doesn't wait for government intervention. Also he he clearly isn't an anarchist as he believes in perfect discipline and order/hierachy in which criminals are scum.

The Punisher strikes me as a very right wing sort of hero, probably the most obvious example of one. Batman as well but Batman's no kill code makes him seem like a bleeding heart next to The Punisher.

 

[Mila is My World]

The Punisher strikes me as a very right wing sort of hero, probably the most obvious example of one. Batman as well but Batman's no kill code makes him seem like a bleeding heart next to The Punisher.

I brought this up before but while Punisher is definitely right wing, he is portrayed as an unhinged, traumatised lunatic. The meta-narrative of the stories do not take his personal black and white moral worldview as a good thing. Other heroes criticize and avoid him. Captain American beat the shit out of him and called him insane.

Batman isn't really left or right wing, but he is an authoritarian. Bruce Wayne however is a Billionaire Liberal. When he's not acting like a drunk or a horndog he's constantly pushing for prison reform, charity drives or social programs to help the underprivileged. He's also shown to constantly be pushing back at the ruthless profit-driven corporatists at Wayne Ent. board of directors. He's the 'benevolent businessman'.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I brought this up before but while Punisher is definitely right wing, he is portrayed as an unhinged, traumatised lunatic. The meta-narrative of the stories do not take his personal black and white moral worldview as a good thing. Other heroes criticize and avoid him. Captain American beat the shit out of him and called him insane.

True so there is an effort to frame his actions as morally ambiguous at best.

Batman isn't really left or right wing, but he is an authoritarian. Bruce Wayne however is a Billionaire Liberal. When he's not acting like a drunk or a horndog he's constantly pushing for prison reform, charity drives or social programs to help the underprivileged. He's also shown to constantly be pushing back at the ruthless profit-driven corporatists at Wayne Ent. board of directors. He's the 'benevolent businessman'.

His Batman persona is a figure of law and order and as Bruce Wayne I see him as something like a Carnegie sort of billionaire. He supports the system that allows him to become a billionaire but feels that the catch is he has to donate to charity. So by billionaire standards he's a bleeding heart but overall I think he's like center right whereas Punisher is like far right.

 

[Mila is My World]

True so there is an effort to frame his actions as morally ambiguous at best.

His Batman persona is a figure of law and order and as Bruce Wayne I see him as something like a Carnegie sort of billionaire. He supports the system that allows him to become a billionaire but feels that the catch is he has to donate to charity. So by billionaire standards he's a bleeding heart but overall I think he's like center right whereas Punisher is like far right.

Yeah Bruce Wayne is a capitalist, no doubt. All major american heroes are (I could see Spidey being an AOC fan maybe). But in the context of mainstream american politics and social issues certainly for the time, Bruce Wayne is firmly on the 'liberal left'.

Punisher isn't even conservative he's damn near a fascist like Roarschach or The Comedian from Watchmen. He only differs in the sense that he feels he has better grasp of what justice is that the authorities, so wouldn't necessarily be pro-cop or anything like that.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Yeah Bruce Wayne is a capitalist, no doubt. All major american heroes are (I could see Spidey being an AOC fan maybe). But in the context of mainstream american politics and social issues certainly for the time, Bruce Wayne is firmly on the 'liberal left'.

Hmm, maybe. I think its fair to say he's close to the center, either being center left or center right. Not a pinko or a fascist

Punisher isn't even conservative he's damn near a fascist like Roarschach or The Comedian from Watchmen. He only differs in the sense that he feels he has better grasp of what justice is that the authorities, so wouldn't necessarily be pro-cop or anything like that.

Haha, didn't want to say he's fascist but I don't think its uncalled for, definitely get those vibes from him.

On a side note I can never think about the Punisher and not think about this video. Thumbnail alone is worth the price of admission.

 

[maq22]

Yeah Bruce Wayne is a capitalist, no doubt. All major american heroes are (I could see Spidey being an AOC fan maybe). But in the context of mainstream american politics and social issues certainly for the time, Bruce Wayne is firmly on the 'liberal left'.

Punisher isn't even conservative he's damn near a fascist like Roarschach or The Comedian from Watchmen. He only differs in the sense that he feels he has better grasp of what justice is that the authorities, so wouldn't necessarily be pro-cop or anything like that.

No

You're focused too much on his Bruce Wayne persona to paint him as left as you can so it would fit your thesis. Bruce Wayne is just a cover for his vigilante activities. Every meaningful relationship he had in his adult life was as Batman.

His origin story with training himself to peak human condition, arming to the teeth is a conservative wet dream. He wasn't granted his powers or abilities and felt the need to altruistically share with society and use them for good. He is a product of tough upbringing and refused to be a victim or let his trauma consume him and paralyze him to the point of being useless. That's pretty much a right wing ethos of "bootstraps". He is a cripple in some way, but it doesn't render him impotent to reach his goals.

Batman doesn't aim for optimism, he wants to strike fear and drive the idea that crime will be punished. He appoints himself ultimate sheriff of gotham or it's strongman (which both are right wing concepts).

There is nothing left wing about Batman and reaching for his Bruce Wayne alter ego is dishonest IMHO.

 

[Rational Poster]

No

You're focused too much on his Bruce Wayne persona to paint him as left as you can so it would fit your thesis. Bruce Wayne is just a cover for his vigilante activities. Every meaningful relationship he had in his adult life was as Batman.

His origin story with training himself to peak human condition, arming to the teeth is a conservative wet dream. He wasn't granted his powers or abilities and felt the need to altruistically share with society and use them for good. He is a product of tough upbringing and refused to be a victim or let his trauma consume him and paralyze him to the point of being useless. That's pretty much a right wing ethos of "bootstraps". He is a cripple in some way, but it doesn't render him impotent to reach his goals.

Batman doesn't aim for optimism, he wants to strike fear and drive the idea that crime will be punished. He appoints himself ultimate sheriff of gotham or it's strongman (which both are right wing concepts).

There is nothing left wing about Batman and reaching for his Bruce Wayne alter ego is dishonest IMHO.

Bro, Batman won't even use a gun.

 

[maq22]

Bro, Batman won't even use a gun.

He won't? What about batmobile, or batwing? He isn't anti-gun thought.

Reasons why he doesn't want to use guns were explained, as he doesn't want to become a murderer and take law in his hands. He brings criminals to justice and leaves the rest for courts...mostly.

 

[Rational Poster]

He won't? What about batmobile, or batwing? He isn't anti-gun thought.

Reasons why he doesn't want to use guns were explained, as he doesn't want to become a murderer and take law in his hands. He brings criminals to justice and leaves the rest for courts...mostly.

Courts where you are judged by a jury of peers is an inherently liberal concept.

 

[maq22]

Wtf does it have to do with Batman? He is not judge, jury and executioner. He is the ultimate policeman/sheriff.

Besides, conservative's have more in common with classical liberalism.

 

[Denter]

itt:

strawman fallacies that racism is right-wing (lolwut?) and literal nazis are/were right-wing (huh?)

no noticeable left vs right traits on display. *facepalm*

The Punisher strikes me as a very right wing sort of hero, probably the most obvious example of one. Batman as well but Batman's no kill code makes him seem like a bleeding heart next to The Punisher.

I wonder why all vigilante movies/heroes get portrayed as right wing. Deathwish and Dirty Harry always come up in conversation about right wing movies as well.

 

[maq22]

I wonder why all vigilante movies/heroes get portrayed as right wing. Deathwise and Dirty Harry always come up in conversation about right wing movies as well.

Blue haired monsters posting on Twitter or part-time employed Bernie Bros just don't make good action sequences.

But srsly it's pretty simple. Right wingers more often believe in taking matters in your hands. It's a pretty clear distinction. Sane right wingers, are happy without social programs as long as they can pay less taxes, while left wingers constantly play victims and bitch about someone doing something for them.

Those vigilante's methods might be questionable, but ultimately justice is served and order restored. All done without begging for help.

 

[Denter]

I don't know if you can put a label on revenge movies. I think its just too primal to be politicized.

Generally, though, the right supports hierarchy- hopefully, a good hierarchy- and it's kind of a point in vigilante comics/ movies that the system, the hierarchy, does not work. If it did, the Punisher wouldn't exist.

A good example of a right wing movie where the hero is lawless would be Robin Hood- who steals, violates the law, and so forth, but in the end, King Richard returns from the Crusade and retakes his throne from the usurper, returning the hierarchy to its proper place. Presumably, Robin Hood is not ambushing King Richard's tax collectors after that.

In movies like Batman, its much less clear if the system is redeemable or not.