New method of calculating GOAT status

[JKS]

That's only if you take losses into account. Looking purely at his accomplishments, Randy is definitely a level above Khabib. More title wins, two weight classes, and mostly championship level challengers. All while being an undersized LHW.

Maybe I would put him over Khabib a greater champion. But overall as a fighter I would have Khabib higher no doubt.

 

[Trabaho]

And Mighty Mouse would get stomped by Rampage Jackson. Are you being intentionally stupid? This is a measure of resume, not who would beat who.



Then make your own, like I said. You can copy the whole thing into your own spreadsheet and make all the Couture opponents cans so he's the worst champion ever. I don't care. The point is the methodology, not my opinion.

Difference is Stipe Randy DC are all heavyweights.
Lol at Randys resume being the 6# greatest of all time.

 

[SuperNerd]

step one: google GSP
step two: compare fighter finder

 

[achoo42]

Difference is Stipe Randy DC are all heavyweights.
Lol at Randys resume being the 6# greatest of all time.

Ngannou would beat Randy. Brock Lesnar did beat Randy. That doesn't mean they have better resumes, dum dum.

Lol at Randys resume being the 6# greatest of all time.

Pedro Rizzo x2, the best UFC heavyweight striker at the time
Chuck Liddell, all-time great
Tito Ortiz, all-time great
Vitor Belfort, a force of nature during this time
Tim Sylvia, the greatest heavyweight of that era
Gabriel Gonzaga, who came off of knocking Cro Cop's head off

How does DC or Stipe have a better resume?

 

[pankrat]

Here's my criteria for calculating how good a champion's resume is:

• Each title win (not including interim) was scored on a scale of 10, with 10 being an all time great win, and 1 being a complete can.
• Then up to a 50% bonus for how dominant the win was, rounded to the nearest half point. E.g., 50% for total domination, but no bonus for a close fight.
• If the fight was controversial I deducted up to 50%. This means deducting points from fights like Reyes vs Jones or Lawler vs Condit which are commonly considered to be robberies.
• Points can also be deducted for inconclusive wins, fluke wins, and fights that the champion was very close to losing even if they ended up with the finish.
• Then you add up all the points to measure the greatness of a champion's resume.
• Every win is scored based on how good it was at the time. For example, Anderson Silva beating a prime Hendo was given 8 points, whereas Bisping beating Hendo 8 years later was only given 5 points.

Here's my results on a spreadsheet

This is purely a measure of resume, so it doesn't take into account things like drug test fails, how exciting they were, consecutive wins, or losses. So someone like Randy Couture will score very high despite losing a lot, whereas Khabib will score relatively low despite never losing.

And while I tried to be as fair as possible, it's going to end up being subjective no matter what. So feel free to copy and paste the spreadsheet into your own and fiddle with the numbers.

In any case, this is what came up as my top 30, plus their scores.
1. Jon Jones (129) *149 including non-title fights
2. Georges St. Pierre (119)
3. Anderson Silva (90) *119 including non-title fights
4. Demetrious Johnson (84)
5. José Aldo (76.5) *97.5 including WEC title wins
6. Randy Couture (75.5)
7. Amanda Nunes (73)
8. Matt Hughes (69)
9. Daniel Cormier (63.5)
10. Stipe Miocic (62.5)
11. Alexander Volkanovski (62)
12. Chuck Liddell (61.5)
13. Israel Adesanya (61)
14. BJ Penn (55)
15. Tito Ortiz (53)
16. Kamaru Usman (52)
17. TJ Dillashaw (51.5)
18. Valentina Shevchenko (50)
19. Cain Velasquez (50)
20. Max Holloway (48)
21. Khabib Nurmagomedov (44)
22. Dominick Cruz (43.5) *67 including WEC title wins
23. Henry Cejudo (42)
24. Chris Weidman (42)
25. Joanna Jędrzejczyk (40)
26. Ronda Rousey (39.5)
27. Tyron Woodley (39)
28. Tim Sylvia (37.5)
29. Zhang Weili (35.5)
30. Brock Lesnar (31)

Some takeaways:

• Adesanya wasn't even close to Silva's resume level.
• Usman wasn't close to GSP, he was still pretty far from Matt Hughes.
• Aljamain Sterling is nowhere close to Cruz or Dillashaw.
• Matt Hughes was a piece of shit but he's consistently underrated in top 10 talks.
• Khabib is far from a top 10 fighter in terms of resume. He might be an all-time great for how clean and dominant he was, but winning 4 title fights doesn't give you an all-time great resume.
• Jon Jones has the best resume. Doesn't mean he's the GOAT but it's hard to argue that anyone has a better resume.

And just for fun, the worst champions were:

• Evan Tanner (6)
• Vitor Belfort (4.5)
• Nicco Montaño (4)
  
• Germaine de Randamie (4)
  
• Bas Rutten (3)

Dude, you gave more quality opponent to Hardy than Marquard, and same than Okami or Maia. I didnt look further

Have a bit of respect for yourself and go get another hobby

 

[orca]

This is really fascinating. I like it. The only thing I'd add is a modifier for PED's, which would bring Jones down quite a bit. Quite frankly Silva would drop a little too

everybody is on
only naive people think otherwise
my favorite fighter of all time is machida
theres no way hes natural even if he was born a
a japanese martial artist and so on
guys like mark munoz the most nicest
the most humble mma fighters aint natural

look around you.even some normal people take some kind of enhancers like trt

 

[orca]

step one: google GSP
step two: compare fighter finder

best wins guys like diaz,kos fitch undersized bj penn
seriously
dude was considerd one of the biggest WW in his time
those muscles he carry
he doesnt even tire

 

[I WILL CUT YOU]

Any list with Randy at #6 is an absolute failure


Your opinion sucks.

 

[theleerygoose]

Number 8 is Hughes if true.

 

[Striker Fox]

best wins guys like diaz,kos fitch undersized bj penn
seriously
dude was considerd one of the biggest WW in his time
those muscles he carry
he doesnt even tire

"undersized" BJ Penn held his own against a 220lb Machida
Jake Shields beat TRT Hendo

Maybe all those guys in the higher weight classes have the bigger names, but not more talent?

Let's not forget that Jones' resume is loaded with Middleweight sized guys and past prime LHWs, when he wasn't having suspicious test results every time he was lined up to fight DC.

 

[Oscar Madison]

opinions and assholes

 

[ryun253]

Overthinking it bud

 

[spinup]

Thats alot of work bro congrats....could work for determining an overall GOAT but it's still highly subjective..in ranking the opponents and title defenses.

The only Objective Divisional GOAT characteristics are as follows

1) Win the title
2) Defend said title against top ranked opponents more times then any champion before you.


That is all.. there's no more objective way to determine it as we are comparing champions from different eras

There is big problem with including only title fights: fighters do not control who they have to beat to become champion.
Some have to clean up a row of killers before getring a TS, some gey gifted a shot very quick.

For example: Brock do not belong that high on the list, his resume weak compared to JDS, Werdum, Ngannou. He just got lucky because he was a big name.

 

[Blanqa Blanqua]

Any GOAT list without Fedor on it is wrong.

He is clear above those lists.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

There is big problem with including only title fights: fighters do not control who they have to beat to become champion.
Some have to clean up a row of killers before getring a TS, some gey gifted a shot very quick.

For example: Brock do not belong that high on the list, his resume weak compared to JDS, Werdum, Ngannou. He just got lucky because he was a big name.

Brock and none of the guys u listed are divisional HW GOAT prospects ..so they are indeed all equal in the end..

Hw GOAT Status belongs to Stipe

 

[Kevlar44]

Interesting and well thought out. I think it's a great job. I'll offer some critiques not to be a dick but out of respect as I think this is one of the best jobs I've ever seen of doing a fair analysis.

I do think PED's and quality of competition matter. PED's pre USADA aren't really a big consideration but pissing hot numerous times, even if the UFC made up some "pulsing" BS, will always hurt Jones' resume in my eyes. Also guys like Couture and Liddel having faced watered down competition due to Pride being a thing also matters, not as if it was their fault but it's clear some of the best guys were elsewhere.

I also think non title fights of high prestige really should matter. GSP had to fight Sean Sherk and then BJ Penn in a title eliminator and those are huge tasks and wins as good as a title bout for quality. In comparison Jones had to beat Ryan Bader and that's kinda it in terms of upper echelon guys to get to the title, and I'd put him on par with a guy like Trigg the guy GSP faced before Penn and Sherk. It really is important to note that some guys had much tougher paths to a title and those fights should never be discounted in my eyes. Volk also had some seriously impressive wins to get to the title and those should matter. I suppose it's difficult to draw that line but if a guy has fought for a title I think that should in the very least be considered a resume builder. Guys like Holloway and Whittaker are also really hurt as they are/were essentially always fighting championship caliber opponents and it's tough to just overlook that in terms of greatness, at least for me.

Why is it just Zuffa? Pride has to be factored in IMO, for a time in the higher weight classes it really was the elite organization. If we're talking GOATS of the higher weight classes it's impossible not to have Big Nog and Fedor on the list and you essentially know it as Shoguns resume is based on his accomplishments there. As was Strikeforce as evidenced by what those guys did when they came over. Props for including WEC though, but again Zuffa isn't the only game in town. Should One not factor in for a guys like Mighty Mouse considering how strong their flyweight roster is? That one is a little iffy but it's hard not to think it's better competition there than what the UFC currently has at flyweight.

It's not easy and I mean no serious criticism but some of the points are a little odd. In regards to Jones, how in the world is Thiago Santos an 8? How was a past him prime Gus still an 8 in the second fight when he was a 7 for Cormier while in his prime? How is Mark Hominick worth as much as a win over Faber in terms of quality opponent? Faber was genuinely elite while Hominick put up a great fight but was never near his resume before of after his title fight. For Miocic how is Ngannou not a 9 or 10 given he became a champion and he was demolishing everyone sans a snoozefest "fight" against Lewis? For Adesanya Whittaker seems like an obvious 9, especially if a guy like Santos is an 8, a former champ who dominated the division sans Adesanya is about as great a title contender as they come. Many of the women are being docked for their dominance and for the infancy of WMMA but some of the pioneer type dues like Couture aren't, why? Lesnar fought way past their prime versions of Couture and Mir, I think they're way overrated in terms of quality for him. I could go on as some things are a little off to me but overall it's pretty great.

I think overall it's pretty fair but i think some bias is certainly present and some key omissions in regards to true best on best considerations are present. It would be interesting to see 5 or 10 people look at editing this groundwork and getting a collation of opinions to eliminate some bias a well as adding in other relevant organization results. I do think it's extremely well done though and about as well done as anyone could expect, you clearly know your shit so mad props.

 

[Paul E Gensinger]

Apparently getting beat into retardation by Bigfoot Silva wasn't part of the criteria.

 

[Soggust]

This is purely a measure of resume, so it doesn't take into account things like drug test fails, how exciting they were, consecutive wins, or losses.

 

[Number 8]

Change your title to UFC goat

 

[achoo42]

It's not easy and I mean no serious criticism but some of the points are a little odd. In regards to Jones, how in the world is Thiago Santos an 8? How was a past him prime Gus still an 8 in the second fight when he was a 7 for Cormier while in his prime? How is Mark Hominick worth as much as a win over Faber in terms of quality opponent? Faber was genuinely elite while Hominick put up a great fight but was never near his resume before of after his title fight. For Miocic how is Ngannou not a 9 or 10 given he became a champion and he was demolishing everyone sans a snoozefest "fight" against Lewis? For Adesanya Whittaker seems like an obvious 9, especially if a guy like Santos is an 8, a former champ who dominated the division sans Adesanya is about as great a title contender as they come. Many of the women are being docked for their dominance and for the infancy of WMMA but some of the pioneer type dues like Couture aren't, why? Lesnar fought way past their prime versions of Couture and Mir, I think they're way overrated in terms of quality for him. I could go on as some things are a little off to me but overall it's pretty great.

Very legitimate considerations here. I can definitely do some editing, or like you said it would be better to crowdsource since if you're trying to be fair it's better to balance out multiple opinions. Good point about Faber, I just kind of balanced out the style matchup as well—Faber wasn't a good striker and he's fighting one of the greatest anti-wrestlers of all time, so to me it's a bit more impressive for Aldo to beat a higher caliber of striker. But of course, that's just one way of looking at it.

For the first Ngannou/Stipe fight, I hesitate to give Ngannou a 9 or higher because his only real win at the time was a washed Overeem (He beat an ancient Arlovski and a Blaydes making his UFC debut). If Stipe had beat Ngannou in their 2nd fight, it would be much easier to give him a very high score.

Whittaker's score can be improved. I kind of stand by Santos for how much of a force he was at the time (although it's true he was moving up from middleweight). But yeah a 7.5 might be more appropriate.

The women are docked while Couture isn't because Couture (for the most part) fought and beat real killers. Tim Sylvia, Pedro Rizzo, Gonzaga (who had just knocked Cro Cop's head off), Ortiz,

If you want to look at the pioneers who had many defenses but docked for shallowness, that would be Pat Miletich and Frank Shamrock. They would be comparable to Ronda Rousey in terms of the quality of competition. I think both have 5 title wins and aren't anywhere near the top 30.

And yes Couture was in his mid 40s when he fought Lesnar. But looking at it at the time, he was the champion who had just beat two people that he shouldn't have been able to beat—the giant Tim Sylvia who broke the record for consecutive HW defenses, and a surging Gonzaga who had just knocked out Cro Cop with a head kick. And he not only beat them, he conclusively dominated them. You couldn't say he was performing at anything below an elite heavyweight level.

So at this point, his age wasn't really a factor—it would have surprised nobody if he also beat Brock. I mean he was known as Captain America for a reason.